Hi-Viz options; To be or not to be a human glo-stick

Do you wear hi-viz gear?

  • Jacket

    Votes: 45 34.6%
  • Vest

    Votes: 19 14.6%
  • Helmet

    Votes: 46 35.4%
  • Other hi-viz

    Votes: 23 17.7%
  • No good options for hi-viz

    Votes: 6 4.6%
  • I'm too cool for hi-viz

    Votes: 34 26.2%

  • Total voters
    130

lam@barf

cage killer
Btw folks, I wanted to clarify that my interest in hi-viz was mostly for night visibility (thus the glo-stick). . . .
Then get the tape. Hi-viz is good but it doesn't glo in the dark. There are differences in the quality or reflectivity of items available, they're not all a visible as SOLAS. It can be expensive but you're going for outlines at most. Too much SOLAS just makes a big glowing blob and you don't want to induce target-fixation. :cool
 

sanjuro

Rider
This is a personal comment, but this thread seemed a bit over the top, and I thought it was a sign of that your focus was on the unimportant, like should you use bicycle blinkie lights or runner LED wristbands.

Bicyclists and runners are going really slow, which gives them little control over how they interact with cars. While it is important that motorcyclists are visible to drivers, we have much more control because we are able to go as fast as cars.

And your crash is an example of this. While one could argue if you were more visible the driver ahead would not have merged over, but possibly the driver didn't look at all. You could have had a disco ball for a helmet, and the driver would have not noticed.

Since the driver did not stop, who knows. But I ride in a way that assumes I am invisible.

Now increasing visibility certainly does not hurt, but focusing on how you can control your own riding is probably more important than using secondary lighting objects.
 

davidji

bike curious
Then get the tape. Hi-viz is good but it doesn't glo in the dark. There are differences in the quality or reflectivity of items available, they're not all a visible as SOLAS. It can be expensive but you're going for outlines at most. Too much SOLAS just makes a big glowing blob and you don't want to induce target-fixation. :cool
I agree with all of that.

Reflective stuff is good at night, but a lot of the visibility problem is standing out in the day. Furthermore at night where we blend in the most is our headlight getting lost in a sea of car headlights, and reflective stuff doesn't help there (at least for traffic moving our direction, no headlights on us)--aux lighting solves that.

So it makes sense to me to use tape that is both high viz and reflective. 3m Diamond Grade is among the best (very bright and good viewing angle), and comes in high viz greenish yellow and high viz orange
 

CrumpetRocket

Well-known member
I don't wear any hi viz. I think it's a great idea. Brighter is better. But I believe that when they don't see you, it's because they didn't look. I would like to be able to blame cell phones or blind spots, but 99% of the time it seems that the driver just didn't even bother to look. Can't see what you don't look at, regardless of color.

But I do wear red/ white on a red bike. I feel like even though it isn't "hi viz" is quite noticeable. Enough so that if anyone says I didn't see him, pretty sure they'll get a "how the hell can you not see that" from the emts.
 

parainbow

Chicks dig squeaky pants
I use a white helmet and Denali micro LEDs (front) to help those who are putting at least some effort into paying attention. I have used a high-viz jacket in the past, but didn't feel it was that effective. As a newer rider at the time, I think it may have been counterproductive, because on some level, I probably expected drivers to see me. Now I wear a black 'Stich and always ride like I'm invisible.

If your spidey senses tell you someone who should be isn't "seeing" you, any bike can be made higher viz, without spending a dime, by:

1. Wiggle your handlebars for threats ahead of you. This can create an effect similar to (but not as pronounced as) a headlight modulator.

2. Flash your brake light several times if decelerating rapidly/unexpectedly, or at a stop and uncomfortable with the closure rate of a vehicle behind you. But don't waste time with this if it is time to GTFO of the way.

3. The SMIDSY weave. I prefer more of a succession of changes in lane position than a weave.
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/the-smidsy-maneuver-revisited.875219/


youtu.be/eqQBubilSXU

If you're willing to consider inexpensive bike mods ($149) this is my next one:
https://www.clearwaterlights.com/infopg_Billie.html

Same concept for non CAN-bus bikes:
http://vololights.com/pages/ridesafer?gclid=CjwKEAjwxce4BRDE2dG4ueLArHMSJADStCqMBfhjVORyRqfQrq0JroU_rB6467uis6R1lSqpg5gPqxoCnkfw_wcB

Bottom line is that half of drivers out there may not "see" you, even if they are looking at you, because they do not perceive you as a threat. Like, say, the guy in the lifted bro-dozer. Do what you can to be conspicuous, but always have an out.
 
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Pluot

Well-known member
Hola everyone. I think I should have clarified further. I keep getting responses as if I'm expecting to look like a glo-worm day and night and expecting cars not to hit me. That is very so much not the case. I don't think any amount of hi-viz I would have been wearing at the time of my accident would have prevented it from happening. What would have prevented it is if I had better lane positioning and traffic reading skills. I assessed the car at the time, and was dismissive of its position as being static when I shouldn't have.

If you reference the list of hi-viz items I listed, they are primarily what runners/cyclists use at night for visibility. I was wondering if the same things could be used for night visibility - on the freeway or the hills. So my concern with hi-viz that I am interested in is visibility to a car approaching from behind. When I see other motorcyclists ahead of me, when they are wearing all-black, sometimes their tail/brake light aligns with the car ahead of them, and I don't notice them. And I noticed when I would follow another motorcyclist wearing white or light colored clothing article didn't make a difference either; only thing I could see was their tail light. Unless there was a light or very reflective material, I could not make out the shape of the rider ahead of me.

I genuinely appreciate the advice overall. But PLEASE stop assuming that I am de-emphasizing the importance of defensive riding. As I stated in one of my first replies to this thread, I want hi-viz for night visibility. I don't want to have to state this over and over. For those new to the forum and otherwise, I think the additional visibility that hi-viz provides is great, and I would add more day time visibility if possible. Yes, ride like you are invisible. The point is you don't HAVE to be invisible, especially at night, and for the attentive motorists who ARE paying attention to the road, it is a beneficial safety + for both parties. At night, even to those who ARE paying attention, motorcyclists can be hard to see. Perhaps some of you might state that being visible to the vehicle behind you may not matter as much, but I want to be more visible if possible. I don't see a negative to more visibility. But once again, never have I thought hi-viz reduces my personal responsibility as a motorcyclist, and nor have I ever made a statement suggesting as such.

The replies in regards to aux lights, retroflective tape and visibility techniques are what I am looking for. As for the additional info on hi-viz, I think it's great stuff to learn about.

The retro-reflective tape to my bike and possible retroflective panels for the back of my backpack are what I think I am going to add to my current riding gear. I was looking at Reflexlite V92 tape on amazon, has anyone tried this one? Marine microprismatic retroreflective tape is the same thing as SOLAS tape, am I right?

I haven't had the time to research carefully through the suggested tapes and visibility solutions, but I will look them up online. Thanks again everyone!


The below link does not work for me :(

Also on a negative note, I have tried wiggling my headlights lane splitting once, since my exhaust is quiet and I wanted to alert the car in front of me that I was behind him, as he was very close to me. He got upset and proceeded to pretend to hit me. But yes, I do use this method at times (perhaps better suited for roomier situations).

I use a white helmet and Denali micro LEDs (front) to help those who are putting at least some effort into paying attention. I have used a high-viz jacket in the past, but didn't feel it was that effective. As a newer rider at the time, I think it may have been counterproductive, because on some level, I probably expected drivers to see me. Now I wear a black 'Stich and always ride like I'm invisible.

If your spidey senses tell you someone who should be isn't "seeing" you, any bike can be made higher viz, without spending a dime, by:

1. Wiggle your handlebars for threats ahead of you. This can create an effect similar to (but not as pronounced as) a headlight modulator.

2. Flash your brake light several times if decelerating rapidly/unexpectedly, or at a stop and uncomfortable with the closure rate of a vehicle behind you. But don't waste time with this if it is time to GTFO of the way.

3. The SMIDSY weave. I think of it more as changing lane position than a weave.
http://http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/the-smidsy-maneuver-revisited.875219/

Bottom line is that half of drivers out there may not "see" you, even if they are looking at you, because they do not perceive you as a threat. Like, say, the guy in the lifted bro-dozer. Do what you can to be conspicuous, but always have an out.

Are there any alternatives to SOLAS tape and aux lighting that you can recommend? This is exactly what I want to address - avoidance of blending in, whether blending into the dark, or into the sea of lights.

Furthermore at night where we blend in the most is our headlight getting lost in a sea of car headlights, and reflective stuff doesn't help there (at least for traffic moving our direction, no headlights on us)--aux lighting solves that.
 
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davidji

bike curious
Are there any alternatives to SOLAS tape and aux lighting that you can recommend?
I don't recommend Solas tape. Bright at night, but dull in daylight. 3M Diamond Grade is very bright, has a great viewing angle and comes in high viz, as well as bright white and bright red.

http://www.reflectivelyyours.com/generic156.html
http://www.reflectivelyyours.com/generic140.html

As far as aux lights, I like Photon Blasters, but there are many good options.
http://www.skenedesign.com/lights/PB_Features.shtml

It's helpful to have more than just a single low beam on so your bike stands out as a bike among the sea of headlights at night. Aux lights offer that, but you asked about alternatives. Converting your front turn signals to normal-on, flash-off is an alternative way. If you have two headlights, but only one on for low beam, some convert them so both lights offer low beam. That's another alternative.
 

Cincinnatus

Not-quite retired Army
Are headlight modulators universal?

Nope, sorry... :teeth

The one that WAS listed in the Grab Bag before someone (not me) deleted it :mad is a Kisan pathBlazer P115W-DHL https://kisantech.com/mag/p115w-dhl.html.

It cost me $169.95 to find out it didn't fit my bike. :mad

Fortunately, Kisan tech support sent me a replacement for free :party so I won't be greedy. :teeth

I plugged your bike into their fitment chart and it will NOT fit your bike. https://kisantech.com/mag/pfin/p115w.html

Personally, I love having a headlight modulator. It cycles the high beam between 20% & 80% during daylight hours and doesn't work at night, per design & CVC.

I've also got a pair of Clearwater Lights 'Darla's', https://www.clearwaterlights.com//infopg_darla.html that punch out 2,000 lumens of clear white light about 100 yards. They cost $$$, but the improvement in visibility (your observed path on the road and the instant "Yeah, I see you coming up behind my car") is worth every penny.

And I've got some amber SkeneDesign PhotonBlasters http://www.skenedesign.com/lights/PB_Features.shtml on my front 'forks' so I have the visibility triangle going on https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-accessories-for-increasing-the-visibility-of-a-motorcycle.

If you wanna see me & the bike (Schuberth hi-viz helmet, Klim (pronounce 'climb', BTW :teeth) Helimot Hi-5 & Buffalo Pro gloves, etc., let me know. :thumbup :laughing
 

Pluot

Well-known member
Thanks for the info!

Also... was that an invitation for me to come check you (& your bike) out?
HEHEHEHE I might have to take you up on that offer and bring shades so I'm not too dazzled :cool

Nope, sorry... :teeth

The one that WAS listed in the Grab Bag before someone (not me) deleted it :mad is a Kisan pathBlazer P115W-DHL https://kisantech.com/mag/p115w-dhl.html.

It cost me $169.95 to find out it didn't fit my bike. :mad

Fortunately, Kisan tech support sent me a replacement for free :party so I won't be greedy. :teeth

I plugged your bike into their fitment chart and it will NOT fit your bike. https://kisantech.com/mag/pfin/p115w.html

Personally, I love having a headlight modulator. It cycles the high beam between 20% & 80% during daylight hours and doesn't work at night, per design & CVC.

I've also got a pair of Clearwater Lights 'Darla's', https://www.clearwaterlights.com//infopg_darla.html that punch out 2,000 lumens of clear white light about 100 yards. They cost $$$, but the improvement in visibility (your observed path on the road and the instant "Yeah, I see you coming up behind my car") is worth every penny.

And I've got some amber SkeneDesign PhotonBlasters http://www.skenedesign.com/lights/PB_Features.shtml on my front 'forks' so I have the visibility triangle going on https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-accessories-for-increasing-the-visibility-of-a-motorcycle.

If you wanna see me & the bike (Schuberth hi-viz helmet, Klim (pronounce 'climb', BTW :teeth) Helimot Hi-5 & Buffalo Pro gloves, etc., let me know. :thumbup :laughing
 

Cincinnatus

Not-quite retired Army
I make house calls. :teeth :party :laughing

Blasting down from San Leandro to SJ isn't a problem for me. :thumbup

If you want me to bring the PathBlazer down to see if it'll fit, that's not a problem. If it fits, great, if it doesn't, no problem. Let me know your schedule & we'll make it happen. :thumbup
 

parainbow

Chicks dig squeaky pants
The below link does not work for me :(

This is exactly what I want to address - avoidance of blending in, whether blending into the dark, or into the sea of lights.

Link fixed, added YouTube clip and my next mod for the above.
 

badnews

Lost Kiwi
I wear a highviz vest with reflective patches so that when I'm lying unconscious in the middle of the road at night after hitting a deer there is at least some chance that the drunk hill billy coming around the bend in a lifted pickup will see me.

It's uncomfortable to think about being so vulnerable, but I think that it is important to consider when choosing your gear. You might be crumpled up in the middle of the lane at a weird angle. Reflective patches/tape all around could save your bacon.
 
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Pluot

Well-known member
I wear a highviz vest with reflective patches so that when I'm lying unconscious in the middle of the road at night after hitting a deer there is at least some chance that the drunk hill billy coming around the bend in a lifted pickup will see me.

It's uncomfortable to think about being so vulnerable, but I think that it is important to consider when choosing your gear. You might be crumpled up in the middle of the lane at a weird angle. Reflective patches/tape all around could save your bacon.

Sounds like a good idea to me :)

I make house calls. :teeth :party :laughing

Blasting down from San Leandro to SJ isn't a problem for me. :thumbup

If you want me to bring the PathBlazer down to see if it'll fit, that's not a problem. If it fits, great, if it doesn't, no problem. Let me know your schedule & we'll make it happen. :thumbup

Hallo! Sorry for the late response. For weekdays, Mondays or Wednesdays would work for me, but I think the traffic coming down South may be bad for you. So I can come up to visit. Usually weekends are not good for me (schedule too packed), but this Sunday I haven't solidified any plans so I can do Sunday too if it works for you. I will PM you my number!
 

LittleBigGirl

Well-known member
Hi-Viz defined by the Federal Highway Patrol

I found this interesting gem:
http://www.unifirst.com/uniforms-workwear/high-visibility-clothing/faq/

There are different types of reflective materials. 3m tape, for example has a high reflectivity that will illuminate even if the car's headlights are to the side of you and not straight on.

I use this vest at night when I don't have my backpack on. It's a SPECTRUM brand. Then I put 3m reflective strips on my backpack and all over my helmet, which is white-ish.

I like to hope that my pink pom-poms on the helmet and my bike streamers also help with visibility, but I could be wrong.
 

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Cincinnatus

Not-quite retired Army
We'd have to get a pic of you at night, at speed, with gear & streamers, to really get a sense of how visible you are. :teeth :laughing
 

moto-rama

Well-known member
I bought a Klim jacket, it's Hi-Viz Yellow and Black, but I normally jump in to the Roadcrafter which is grey and blue, but does have reflective stuff "stiched" on it.
I have a Joey Dunlop yellow Arai, but it's more like Mellow Yellow. I don't wear it much, though.

I endorse the idea of Hi Visibility, though. Most drivers appear to be blind, though so WTF?
 

moto-rama

Well-known member
I wear a highviz vest with reflective patches so that when I'm lying unconscious in the middle of the road at night after hitting a deer there is at least some chance that the drunk hill billy coming around the bend in a lifted pickup will see me.

It's uncomfortable to think about being so vulnerable, but I think that it is important to consider when choosing your gear. You might be crumpled up in the middle of the lane at a weird angle. Reflective patches/tape all around could save your bacon.

Deer do not see Hi Viz, though, or Roadcrafters.
 

unfilou

Member
for what it's worth. clearwater Darla light @ 30% and billy brake light, Cars move away and don't tail light anymore. white helmet helps. BUT you still need to ride like someone is going to kill you.
 
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