Heated Gear: Be careful with battery charge!

aciurczak

aciurczak

slower would be backwards
FWIW, I run a Gerbing heated liner on an '06 10R and have never had an issue, so if everything is working correctly the bike appears to have plenty of reserve charging capacity, even with the high-beam on as well. That said, I do use one of Gerbing's digital controllers, so it is only on full-power for the first few minutes to warm up and I have to dial it back to half or less or it'll get too toasty.
 
ST Guy

ST Guy

Well-known member
Carlo said:
I thought all that dead stator nonsense only happened to bikes with Lucas electrics.
Click to expand...

Where have you been? :teeth

Besides, modern charging systems operate differently from the old Lucas systems, which everyone knows uses proprietery smoke in a closed system.
 
Ogier le Danois

Ogier le Danois

Well-known member
TTTom said:
It's possible that in order to save weight and cost, Kawasaki installs an alternator that doesn't produce enough excess power (beyond what the bike normally uses) to power any auxilary stuff... but I'd be surprised.

You should be able to find somewhere in the technical documentation on your bike data for both the amps/watts produced by your alternator and the amount used by the bike in normal operations

For example: on my Multi, Ducati installed a 520 watt alternator and the bike typically uses less than 200 watts of it, leaving me over 300 watts for electric vest (100 watts) electric gloves (35 watts) and PIAA driving lights (2x 50 watts)

Unlike modern cars, on nearly all motorcycles the alternator output is not variable, it's constant from maybe 2-3K rpm on up and the excess wattage is totally wasted energy that basically ends up dumped into a heat sink... so using auxilary gear like your jacket isn't putting one bit of extra load on the alternator... you're just dumping energy into your jacket or lights or whatever instead of into the voltage regulator/heat sink.

It sounds like on your bike the stator is a known weak point, another possibility is a failed voltage regulator but I'm really doubting that a 55 watt electric vest overloaded your system. If it did that's some real weak sauce from Kawasaki.
Click to expand...

Even my DR produces about 300 W, plenty to run the headlight a vest and heated grips.

I would think that a 1000cc sportbike would produce at least that much.
 
B

Blacknblue

Well-known member
For Emergency Lighting I carry this with a "C" Maglight and thier tire plugger at all times:

www.stopngo.com

Motorcycle>General Products>Scroll Down>Stop & Go Safety Strobe Light $12.95 + S&H
 
torrey.smith

torrey.smith

)'(
I have a similar situation with my 2002 Hayabusa and just checked per the clear instructions (thanks!):

Battery: 13.5V charged and bike off.

Idle: 12.5V

4000rpm: 14V

It takes substantially more than idle to get above the battery's charged voltage.

I think I need a new voltage regulator. Next stop, BikeBandit!


Edit: $162.99 for Rectifier Assy, $170.94 shipped with BanditBucks redemption.

I hope this fixes it!
 
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ST Guy

ST Guy

Well-known member
torrey.smith said:
I have a similar situation with my 2002 Hayabusa and just checked per the clear instructions (thanks!):

Battery: 13.5V charged and bike off.

Idle: 12.5V

4000rpm: 14V

It takes substantially more than idle to get above the battery's charged voltage.

I think I need a new voltage regulator. Next stop, BikeBandit!


Edit: $162.99 for Rectifier Assy, $170.94 shipped with BanditBucks redemption.

I hope this fixes it!
Click to expand...


I don't know about your bike, specifically, but often a bike won't make full charging voltage at idle. It's not unusual and depends upon the charging system in question. So, there may or may not be anything wrong with your charging system.

Also, the charged voltage on your battery should be about 12.8 volts, tops. If you're getting higher voltages, you're likely checking it too soon after removing the charger. You should wait a minimum of 1 hour, preferably 2 hours after removing the charger or shutting the bike off before checking battery voltage. That give the battery time to stabilize. Otherwise you get a false high reading.

At what RPM did charging voltage go above 13.5 volts?

Oh, and if you really need some charging system components, don't buy Suzuki. Go aftermarket. They are invariably superior, cost less, and last longer.
 
Z3n

Z3n

Squid.
14v at 4k is about exactly what you're looking for. Bikes will never charge the battery at idle, as the charging systems simply don't put out enough juice to keep things charged.

Cancel that order if you can, your charging system is fine.
 
Razel

Razel

Well-known member
The G-650 has a voltmeter. Running down the freeway it's putting out 14.4 volts when charging, otherwise it's sitting about 13.2. Plug in the heated jacket and the voltage never gets above 13.6. Unplug the jacket and in about two seconds it's above 14v.

The GT has an 840 watt alternator, so I don't bother with a voltmeter. :teeth

Jason, where are you getting these EEC values from?
 
ST Guy

ST Guy

Well-known member
Z3n said:
14v at 4k is about exactly what you're looking for. Bikes will never charge the battery at idle, as the charging systems simply don't put out enough juice to keep things charged.
Click to expand...


Not true. There are any number of modern bikes that will put out 14+ volts at idle. Maybe not the majority, but they're out there. Mine's 14.4 at idle.
 
Z3n

Z3n

Squid.
ST Guy said:
Not true. There are any number of modern bikes that will put out 14+ volts at idle. Maybe not the majority, but they're out there. Mine's 14.4 at idle.
Click to expand...

Really? Damn, I've never checked a bike that didn't require at least a bit of reving to get it to start getting to charging voltage. Do you know any other bikes that make enough power to charge at idle?
 
TTTom

TTTom

Well-known member
Z3n said:
Really? Damn, I've never checked a bike that didn't require at least a bit of reving to get it to start getting to charging voltage. Do you know any other bikes that make enough power to charge at idle?
Click to expand...

The Goldwing, maybe some other big bikes

they use a car-type alternator with electromagnets and controller systems rather than fixed permanent magnets like most motorcycles. to get more alternator output at lower RPM the control system provides more power to the electromagnets. At higher rpms supplies less power to the magnets so as not to waste gas producing unneeded wattage

these types of systems are bigger and heavier which is why they're not used much on motorbikes
 
ST Guy

ST Guy

Well-known member
Z3n said:
Really? Damn, I've never checked a bike that didn't require at least a bit of reving to get it to start getting to charging voltage. Do you know any other bikes that make enough power to charge at idle?
Click to expand...

The bigger bikes. Sport tourers and tourers. And there are some sport bikes and standards that can do it as well, but I forget which ones they are. Like the previous poster said, for many bikes, simplicity and light weight are gods to be worshipped and therefore, many bikes have charging systems that are just marginal. Even the early ST1100's ('91 thru '95) came with a wimpy 28 amp system that was only just adequate. Then, in 96, Honda upgraded to an air cooled, more automotive style alternator rated at 40 amps. And towards the end of the model run, they were coming with 55 amp alternators, though it was never advertised. Many owners of older ST's, like me, have upgraded to the later alternator.
 
Z3n

Z3n

Squid.
I know that my triumph T595 had an alternator, I wonder if it put out 14.4 at idle as well...

Of course, the damn thing would stall if I just tried to check it anyways. :laughing
 
louemc

louemc

Well-known member
Paging RichK, Paging RichK, Now that there has been so much charging system info come into this thread, How was your system working? Is it as it should be (for your bike) or is there a malfunction there that caused this?
 
RichK

RichK

Well-known member
louemc said:
Paging RichK, Paging RichK, Now that there has been so much charging system info come into this thread, How was your system working? Is it as it should be (for your bike) or is there a malfunction there that caused this?
Click to expand...

:laughing

Last night was homework night with my daughter, so I didn't get much moto stuff done. I did check the voltage after the overnight charge (2A). I checked it 4 hours after the charger was disconnected, and the battery is at 14.0V.

I then started it up and watched the battery terminal voltage. It pretty much stayed at 14V no matter what the RPMs, so it looks like the Voltage Regulator is working.

Tonight I'm going to start the bike up with the high beam on and the vest connected & on "High", and see if the voltage drops during idle.

When I have more time this weekend, I'll check the stator voltages & resistance. After reading ZX-10R.net, there are a lot of threads on stator problems...

This thread is awesome, I've learned a lot.
 
torrey.smith

torrey.smith

)'(
ST Guy said:
I don't know about your bike, specifically, but often a bike won't make full charging voltage at idle. It's not unusual and depends upon the charging system in question. So, there may or may not be anything wrong with your charging system.

Also, the charged voltage on your battery should be about 12.8 volts, tops. If you're getting higher voltages, you're likely checking it too soon after removing the charger. You should wait a minimum of 1 hour, preferably 2 hours after removing the charger or shutting the bike off before checking battery voltage. That give the battery time to stabilize. Otherwise you get a false high reading.

At what RPM did charging voltage go above 13.5 volts?

Oh, and if you really need some charging system components, don't buy Suzuki. Go aftermarket. They are invariably superior, cost less, and last longer.
Click to expand...

Good point on letting the battery settle for a while.

I will retest and get some data with all my accessories on, plus the high beam.

I run heated grips and a Valentine 1, so I may need to explore some options for more electrical power.

What do you guys recommend?
 
Poxy

Poxy

Well-known member
Because of this thread, I knew exactly what my problem was this morning. I'd been having battery problems.(or so I thought) Replaced the battery yesterday, charged it overnight and rode into SF from the EB. At the first red light after getting off the bridge, the bike just dies very matter-of-factly. I immediately thought of how much I love teh BARF! (actually the first thing I thought was "FUCK!!!!")

I got to meet killfile while staring at the bike, willing it to fix itself. He even offered to get a charger for me!

Thanks all!
 
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louemc

louemc

Well-known member
RichK said:
:laughing

Last night was homework night with my daughter, so I didn't get much moto stuff done. I did check the voltage after the overnight charge (2A). I checked it 4 hours after the charger was disconnected, and the battery is at 14.0V.

I then started it up and watched the battery terminal voltage. It pretty much stayed at 14V no matter what the RPMs, so it looks like the Voltage Regulator is working.

Tonight I'm going to start the bike up with the high beam on and the vest connected & on "High", and see if the voltage drops during idle.

When I have more time this weekend, I'll check the stator voltages & resistance. After reading ZX-10R.net, there are a lot of threads on stator problems...

This thread is awesome, I've learned a lot.
Click to expand...


Good, The stator problems I've noticed on the ZX-10R.net site, were 04 bikes, where the stator (or was it the rotor, I forget) came apart, and the pieces into the oil supply, granaded the engines before a problem was discovered. But that was fixed before the 05's came out.

Anyway, I'm eager to hear about your charging system. These liter race replica's aren't expected to get much of and extra power drain.

Sport touring bikes may get serious lights and the heated gear for two people though.
 
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