Harley Davidson CEO Fired

Bumpits

Well-known member
Can actors be CEO's?
z2Mji9w.jpg
 

afmotorsports

Well-known member
JFC, always amazing how much HD Hatorade gets served on barf. $4-5B profitable company, delivering a good dividend and a product with demand across the world. The 4-5 year trend hasn’t been so positive but are people really so hateful that they want this legendary American motorcycle company to fail? I actually enjoy my Street Glide Special, just as I also enjoy my BMW and Aprilia and KTM and Japanese motorcycles. They all have their place but not everyone will like all their products, so just go buy whatever you like and knock it off with badmouthing the ones you don’t... smh
 

Bay Arean

Well-known member
I don't wish ill on the company at all. I don't knock anybody's elses ride. I don't even knock those CanAm things. Get the wind in yer face, that's all I ask. The more of us there are, the better chance we get our own lane someday.
 

VicTim

VMCSF
I think they need a CEO that knows how to downsize HD into a smaller and more profitable company. Also, some body that can guide them into producing models that will define them in the future.
 

WWWobble

This way...That way...
I think they need a CEO that knows how to downsize HD into a smaller and more profitable company. Also, some body that can guide them into producing models that will define them in the future.

Yep.

Looks to me like Harley is currently profitable. From last earnings data:
(data from finviz.com)

Gross Margin: 35.80%
Operating Margin: 10.40%
Profit Margin: 7.90%

Current Dividend: 4.99%
Payout Ratio: 56.00%

HOWEVER

Earnings per share last 5 years: (7.20)
Earnings per share current: (16.10)

Sales past 5 years: (3.00%)
Sales Q/Q: (6.40%)

Insiders own: 0.20%
Insider transactions: (19.20%)
Institutions own: 99.30%
________________

So, they are making money at what they are selling
But they are selling less and less over the last 5 years.

1. They know how to make money
2. They don't know how to stay with market trends

So yes. They need somebody who can guide them into the future.
 

Bumpits

Well-known member
Their motorcycles are already overpriced. Do you want that to get worse? :laughing

How do you know if harleys are overpriced? They're not built any shittier than they've always been. I just think Harley davidson wishes it was arch motorcycles: niche, american, modern yet timelessly designed. If the livewire had an arch logo on it that $30000 ebike would fly off the shelves.
 
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gixxerjeff

Dogs best friend
Harley sells 1930's technology at today's prices.
That's their business model and that's not going to change until their clientele or company dies off.
 
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JFC, always amazing how much HD Hatorade gets served on barf. $4-5B profitable company, delivering a good dividend and a product with demand across the world. The 4-5 year trend hasn’t been so positive but are people really so hateful that they want this legendary American motorcycle company to fail? I actually enjoy my Street Glide Special, just as I also enjoy my BMW and Aprilia and KTM and Japanese motorcycles. They all have their place but not everyone will like all their products, so just go buy whatever you like and knock it off with badmouthing the ones you don’t... smh

I actually have a Harley tattoo. The company and their products have been a part of my life since I was born.
As a company, they're contracting. As everyone has noted, the sales and revenue are shrinking yearly. They're frustratingly out of touch, and the marketing wing is to blame.
What's worse is the (in my opinion) shitty mentality the company is perpetuating. Year after year they package a product into a lifestyle that's saturated with toxic masculinity and contrived antisocial behavior. Their business model relies on selling painfully loud exhaust systems and convincing people to ignore objective thinking in order to achieve some kind of identity. The company has a top down mentalty of style above all else that stifles legitimate development and progress. When you confront anyone who believes in the dream they're selling, you get a reply along the lines of "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand." There's an implied "we're the best, and if you're not one of us, then you're an idiot." Matt Levatich has been a huge driving force in that thinking. His plan to attract new riders revolved around convincing people that they want a Harley, rather than assessing the market and catering to it. That strategy isn't currently working, and I don't think it ever will.
Harley has become something akin to a 50yo guy standing next to a Ferrari 308 wearing a Hawaiian print shirt catcalling girls in their 20's and yelling insults at them when they laugh. It's obnoxious behavior and the world doesn't need shit like that anymore.
As far as the bikes...Meh... They're fine. Par for the course, but not objectively better at anything other than being a Harley. Great if that's your thing, but you need to bring more to the table if you're looking to expand nowadays. My dad used to joke that Harley guys thought that a 3408 Caterpillar engine was high performance. They wanted to be in 3rd gear before finishing a right turn from a stop. That shift started in the early 2000's, and Harley has come around to that, and they've nailed it. Problem is, the only people who ride that way are old enough that they're not buying new bikes. This is sort of a tangent, but big blocks are no longer king. The LS is the hot thing, and even the 7.0 revs to 6k+. The perception of performance has shifted, and Harley keeps building the same thing.
Retro works, for sure. Look at Triumph, and Ducati. Both brands have cashed in on that trend, but the bikes they're selling in that segment are either priced right or technologically advanced with tangible objective performance. The badge on the tank only matters because the bike under the tank does something more than wear a badge well.
If the Corvette still had an Iron Block 502 and the same driver aids/technology as the Cavalier, people would talk the same shit about Corvette as we do about Harley. Unless HD can evolve (I doubt it) I say good riddance.
 
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Kornholio

:wave
JFC, always amazing how much HD Hatorade gets served on barf. $4-5B profitable company, delivering a good dividend and a product with demand across the world. The 4-5 year trend hasn’t been so positive but are people really so hateful that they want this legendary American motorcycle company to fail? I actually enjoy my Street Glide Special, just as I also enjoy my BMW and Aprilia and KTM and Japanese motorcycles. They all have their place but not everyone will like all their products, so just go buy whatever you like and knock it off with badmouthing the ones you don’t... smh

I'm 100% certain that I've never portrayed myself as an HD hater, Alex. I think they have a place in the market...to a point. Or at least the product lines they're selling now do. But I also strongly believe that Harley-Davidson avoided following the changes in the market dynamics a long time ago and are now starting to reap what they sowed. They flat out ignored the fact that while not all of their sales are going to a particular customer these days, they were for literally decades and instead of diversifying their portfolio, they lumped all their eggs into one basket and continued to produce literally the same motorcycles for well over 30 years with minimal changes, at best. Harley-Davidson is good at a few things...tradition, paint, a platform for excessive noise and hiding the wiring harness in a motorcycle frame. That's it. Literally every other motorcycle manufacturer on the market in the cruiser class has left them behind in every other facet of the cruiser motorcycle.

How do you know if harleys are overpriced? They're not built any shittier than they've always been. I just think Harley davidson wishes it was arch motorcycles: niche, american, modern yet timelessly designed. If the livewire had an arch logo on it that $30000 ebike would fly off the shelves.

Harley's aren't "built shitty" anymore. I grew up with them and yes, they used to leak right off the showroom floor. However, can you objectively say you've seen one do the same in the last 15-20 years? Honestly?

No, I believe they're overpriced for a couple reasons. Firstly, they have to continue to make a profit while dealing with union wages that continue to increase yet the output of the assembly worker stays the same. Seriously, why does someone need to get paid $35 an hour to put two screws into a frame in a factory in the Midwest? :dunno The second reason can be found below...

Harley sells 1930's technology at today's prices.
That's their businessmen model and that's not going to change until their clientele or company dies off.
 

Bumpits

Well-known member
Seriously, why does someone need to get paid $35 an hour to put two screws into a frame in a factory in the Midwest? :dunno The second reason can be found below...

Because if those two screws aren't torqued to their specifications you might kill someone? :dunno $35/hr seems reasonable, especially if that's union.

I'm confused how a bike is simultaneously better than it was 10-15 years ago and also just some old junk from the 30's. Also, it's a cruiser. You don't need much. You need it to sound good, look good, be at home in the garage looking like a solid purchase, loud enough to make your kid's hair stand up on the back of their neck.. while not actually being fast enough to accidentally kill your kid. Just enough of a thrill while you get groceries or coffee. That's all. It's a bike for filthy filthy casuals; the worst possible thing you can be online where everyone's an expert.

I think that's why everyone online hates harleys: people online get rock solid for data: numbers, specs, laptimes, lean angles, physics, politics, marketing, global supply chain logistics, etc. Goddamn nerds ruin everything. :x
 
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Kornholio

:wave
Because if those two screws aren't torqued to their specifications you might kill someone? :dunno $35/hr seems reasonable, especially if that's union.

Torquing a goddamn bolt does not require a degree in rocket science. Many of us "torqued bolts" amongst completing many other skilled-labor tasks without killing anyone and we didn't need a union to ensure we did our jobs correctly.
Integrity isn't something unions create. They're largely an excuse for people with an average skillset to "keep up with the Joneses". I've been on both sides of the fence (worked union and non-union) in multiple industries and it's all the same. They're only really interested in protecting the lowest common denominators from losing their jobs. There's a big difference between paying someone a fair wage for doing a job that requires training and paying someone far too much money just because they need someone else to do their retirement planning for them, a representative to ask for raises for them and to demand safety compliance for things that are already required by the state/feds. But hey, someone has to help them generate all that money they need for those overpriced union dues. It's like some people in this country think every company in the trades has the business practices of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company or something. :rolleyes

I'm confused how a bike is simultaneously better than it was 10-15 years ago and also just some old junk from the 30's.

Firstly, I didn't say "old junk". However, the overall design of the engine in a Harley-Davidson is based on their own early-20th century design that they've only mildly upgraded through the years to basically be in compliance with emissions. It's not as simple as saying, "Well Corvette's are pushrod engines too!". Yes, they are. However to try to suggest that your typical Corvette engine is on a level engineering playing field with a Harley-Davidson engine is a gross oversimplification of the matter. Furthermore, what I meant by "better" is that the quality of the assembly work has improved over the years and in the last 15-20 years especially. Anyone that has been objectively paying attention would notice that.

Also, it's a cruiser. You don't need much. You need it to sound good, look good, be at home in the garage looking like a solid purchase, loud enough to make your kid's hair stand up on the back of their neck.. while not actually being fast enough to accidentally kill your kid. Just enough of a thrill while you get groceries or coffee. That's all.

If that's what you want, fine. What I'm saying is that everyone else already does this with their cruisers. Harley's sell due to brand loyalty and marketing. On an apples-to-apples comparison (ie: stock vs. stock), they don't really outperform anything their competitors offer at a lower price point for a similarly equipped motorcycle.

I think that's why everyone online hates harleys...

Again, I don't hate Harley-Davidsons at all. They have a purpose...they're just grossly overpriced for what they are and I don't necessarily think that's entirely the company's fault.

people online get rock solid for data: numbers, specs, laptimes, lean angles, physics, politics, marketing, global supply chain logistics, etc. Goddamn nerds ruin everything. :x

Yeah, fuck those people who actually think. Intellect is stupid! :facepalm
 
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