GroupThink

CaptCrash

Dazed and Confused
​This whole ugly business in New York with a gang of riders chasing down an SUV and the ensuing violence done on both sides doesn't really surprise me. To my memory this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened, I seem to remember incidents like this occurring before. I also spend a moderate amount of time on the web in motorcycle forums and therein you'll find some pretty tough talk. The subject occasionally turns to retribution against automobiles for real or imagined trespasses. Comments about kicking doors and breaking off mirrors as well as bravado filled rants about armored gloves and punch-proof helmets often pop up.

It's an "Us v. Them" world where there is no innocence and every car that drifts around in its own lane is making calculated moves to enrage or hurt us. An inattentive driver who gets surprised and brakes hard and late is brake checking us, a failure to signal or check a blind spot is attempted murder and there are no innocent mistakes.

In our hard Mad Max view of world we create a place where lethal force could be wielded against us or by us at any danger filled, hate fueled, combative second. Damn cagers. And minivans. And Priuses. And Camrys. And soccer moms. And girls putting on makeup. And fat guys eating greasy burgers. And suits, stockbrokers, and salesmen. And middle aged women....and men. And old farts. And pretty much anybody who pisses us off.

Think about how often do you hear or read the advice, "Ride like they're all trying to get you".

What does that mean? It means that every other user on the road isn't just a danger, they're an enemy that is actively seeking to hurt you. Not to say I don't believe in defensive driving; you need to be alert, active and processing your environment. However once you turn the other users around you into active assailants then you open a very curious door: the right of self-defense. Here's a hard question, if you're being actively bullied and threatened when do you stop, stand up and fight? Seems a simple answer in a bar or restaurant. Could be a simple misunderstanding quickly remedied with with an "sorry, didn't see you" or "my bad". On the road there is no such opportunity for sorting blame or assigning motive. In fact, if we pre-assign blame with "they're out to get us" we also predetermine our reaction.

We are looking for a fight. The problem is often the fight isn't looking for us. I remember a incident I had way back in the early 80s. I was riding a GS550e that was piped, jetted and made a beautiful noise. I was on an expressway that had the occasional stoplight and I was sitting there daydreaming and the light went green. I did a normal, no hurry, no drama launch. After a moment I heard this terrible, sucking, raspy rattle and I looked to my right and right next to me was this POS Datsun with a teenager pilot. He was white knuckling the wheel and had his shoulders and head pressed back into the seat. Clearly he had it to the floor.

"Oh!" I said to myself, "We're racing..." I held back a moment because I was curious if the thing was going to blow up. Then I turned some ponies loose. I had no idea I was racing. Just like loads and loads of us, lost in a moment of everyday life, don't check our blind-spot or forget to signal or remember we need to be in that other lane right now and bail before we look...

If we view the world as a hostile place where we wage war in traffic then it's easy to drift into a kill or be killed mentality. We dehumanize other users and suddenly "cagers" are not people anymore but things. Things that are contemptuous, evil, worthy of disposal or destruction. Yeah, we put our heads in a place where once in a mob that guy is no longer a father, brother, husband or son...just a thing that needs to be taught a lesson. Is that the motoring world you want to be part of?

Be safe.
 

TheBoatDude

Well-known member
That is a well-reasoned and written post. You have no business here, sir! :D

Now - all bullshit aside, you make excellent points. In addition to riding a motorcycle, I also ride bicycles and drive a car. This weekend, I was thinking about how each group views the other two: Motorcyclists have a dim view of drivers and bicyclists; drivers think motorcyclists ride like assholes and that bicyclists are stupid pains in the ass; bicyclists think drivers and motorcyclists are self-absorbed fuckfaces. Each point of view is predicated on the "I'm right and you're wrong" mindset with no consideration for what's going on with the other person. As a motorcyclist, we tout the fact that we're exposed - not just to the elements, but to physical harm due to lack of any protective barriers, thus it is our right to take that position. Yet on this very forum there was a post complaining about the new "3-foot" rule for bicyclists who not only have the same exposure, but lack the horsepower to get themselves out of a bad situation. Of course, when that dichotomy is pointed out, the standard response flows towards the "yeah, but I pay for this road through taxes and registration and they don't" (which is interesting because vast majority of cyclists we see on the road do, in fact, own a car and buy fuel, the exception being in urban areas, maybe).

Are there aggressive drivers that are out to get motorcyclists? Oh, yes. Does that mean they're all out to get us? No; sometimes they just do mindless shit in traffic - we're just more susceptible to the negative consequences of their mindless shit, regardless of intention. Lest we forget, there are two types of people in this world: Those that have done mindless shit in traffic and those that lie about not having done mindless shit in traffic. So yes, it is advisable to ride defensively, but sometimes a lane change is just a lane change.
 

GAJ

Well-known member
Massive group rides/drives whether by drifters in cars, bicyclists or motorcyclists, where the primary intent is to impose their "fun" regardless of how it affects other road users are all pretty damned stupid IMHO.

People's tolerance for them seems to be wearing a bit thin thank goodness.
 

jdhu

Well-known member
Massive group rides/drives whether by drifters in cars, bicyclists or motorcyclists, where the primary intent is to impose their "fun" regardless of how it affects other road users are all pretty damned stupid IMHO.

People's tolerance for them seems to be wearing a bit thin thank goodness.

+1. It seems like attention whoring and an excuse (by people who aren't normally that "brave" or stupid) to do dumb things.
 

Surj

Uneasy Rider
​Think about how often do you hear or read the advice, "Ride like they're all trying to get you".

What does that mean? It means that every other user on the road isn't just a danger, they're an enemy that is actively seeking to hurt you. Not to say I don't believe in defensive driving; you need to be alert, active and processing your environment. However once you turn the other users around you into active assailants then you open a very curious door: the right of self-defense.

Excellent post with many good points. In particular, the "ride like everyone is trying to kill you" is something I've been thinking about for some time. I've brought it up in discussions over on the LaneSplittingIsLegal Facebook page a couple times in the last month or so, when people say things like "I just assume they're all trying to kill me." This is perpetuated all over the place, like this piece on crash avoidance on Motorcycle.com, which states:

"They are out to get you. Every moving vehicle within visual proximity is not to be trusted. Whether it’s a left turn, lane merge, U-turn, running a red light, etc., you must always assume the driver of another vehicle lacks all reasonable intelligence and will execute any maneuver necessary to inflict maximum harm upon you."

As you said above, riding with this mindset puts you in combat mode, and everyone becomes an enemy—not fellow human beings using the road. We're predisposed to angry, defensive responses, which I'd argue make the majority of us worse, less safe riders.

Sure, it sucks that drivers are texting while driving or doing any of the other myriad of activities that endanger all road users. It's incredibly stupid, short-sighted and selfish. But it's not a cover for trying to kill motorcyclists.

As I've actively worked on riding in defensive rather than combative mode, it's become easier to just let go and ride on, which makes for a much more pleasant ride—commute or otherwise.
 
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geritol

Geezer
It seems to me that everyone is free to have as any rabid political opinions and he or she wishes.

On the other hand, when you're riding a motorcycle and your head is filled with self-righteous social and political dogma, you're a sitting duck for death by any number of unfortunate mishaps.

It takes a balanced mind and careful attention to stay out of trouble. Leave the politicizing of everything to the feminists. They're better at it.
 

packnrat

Well-known member
the mob mentality is part of our inner code. it is what we are born with, century's back it was how we as humans survived to the next day.

good people can, will, and have gotten caught up in it.

one has to work to keep out of it. we as humans still must survive till the next day. just pending on where you live will chose what is needed here.

most of the U S of A, it is a very bad thing, as mobs are not needed to survive here. go to somulia and you had better be in 'that" mob...not the weaker one.
 

Cincinnatus

Not-quite retired Army
While I realize that the cagers & truckers are not out to intentionally kill me, their occasional (more than occasional?) "cranial-rectal impact zone-itis" behavior endangers me much more than them.

I ride assertively, not defensively, not aggressively. I ride aware, and I ride beware. Hi-viz gear, holy-shit lights, and split confidently. I wave at cagers, thanking them for letting me by, and I hope other riders see my behavior and emulate. We make no friends by revving the throttle like little kids having temper tantrums or honking horns, kicking mirrors, etc.
 
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