Ethanol free gas

norcalkid

norcalkid

Well-known member
Is there any benefit to running ethanol free gas. I mean engine longevity, just a scooter, can't feel any difference riding. I have E15 92 or E0 95 available. The 95 costs a bit more but uses so little it's a non issue.

Would you even bother running E0 in a scooter if available?
 
shouldnthave

shouldnthave

Taze away, Yana...
Ethanol free will get you better gas mileage, last longer in the tank sitting for periods not being run, keep the buildup of water entering your fuel system through ethanol absorption, and potentially save destructive issues that ethanol can do to plastics over time in the system.

If it's cost effective against the possibility of the damage I would go for it, but if the bike never really sits for much time and fuel cost is more it doesn't make much sense to run anything but pump gas. Also, what octane is recommended for your bike? The higher the octane the slower it burns. If your bike is low compression then running 91 and above could easily remove any gas mileage savings over ethanol.
 
dravnx

dravnx

Well-known member
shouldnthave said:
There are lots of places. All small airports, but more common are companies like Sunco, VP, and Northern lights in California.
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It is not legal to sell aviation fuel for road use and most airports won't sell you fuel by the jug. You may find the occasional ramp rat who will sell it but it is not the norm. Aviation fuel is also leaded. There are 2 octane levels sold at airports 80 and 100. 80 is getting pretty rare. Do some Googling. The octane ratings of aviation fuel is very different from auto ratings.
 
moto-rama

moto-rama

Well-known member
Who is selling it in the Bay Area (Ethanol-Free) as a matter of course, like at every station?

This is helpful, but... it looks like it's pretty exclusive. https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

By the time I got back from San Jose (nearest station), I'd be out of gas again... and seller in SJ only fills "pales" and barrels.

Of course I could borrow my neighbor's pickup, with 2 tanks, fill it up and ...

I've seen it in Idaho at "Maverik's" (yes they spell it that way) stations, for about a 15 cent premium, but nowhere else.

There is a guy on this Forum who claims you can make your own, at home.

I am sure my wife would be thrilled to have a hillbilly refinery in the garage....to go with all the other stuff.
 
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ctwo

ctwo

Merely Rhetorical
moto-rama said:
By the time I got back from San Jose (nearest station), I'd be out of gas again... and seller in SJ only fills "pales" and barrels.
Click to expand...

So, you're saying I'm not going to stop there on my way home from work and fill 'er up?

What's it sell for? I was thinking of trying a tank to see what real gas does.
 
shouldnthave

shouldnthave

Taze away, Yana...
moto-rama said:
Who is selling it in the Bay Area (Ethanol-Free) as a matter of course, like at every station?

This is helpful, but... it looks like it's pretty exclusive. https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

By the time I got back from San Jose (nearest station), I'd be out of gas again... and seller in SJ only fills "pales" and barrels.

Of course I could borrow my neighbor's pickup, with 2 tanks, fill it up and ...

I've seen it in Idaho at "Maverik's" (yes they spell it that way) stations, for about a 15 cent premium, but nowhere else.

There is a guy on this Forum who claims you can make your own, at home.

I am sure my wife would be thrilled to have a hillbilly refinery in the garage....to go with all the other stuff.
Click to expand...

Take a road trip to Reno.
Spend a night having a good time with legal hookers and not so legal blow.
While there fill up a few 55s with ethanol free for $.40 less a gallon.
Win?
 
shouldnthave

shouldnthave

Taze away, Yana...
dravnx said:
It is not legal to sell aviation fuel for road use and most airports won't sell you fuel by the jug. You may find the occasional ramp rat who will sell it but it is not the norm. Aviation fuel is also leaded. There are 2 octane levels sold at airports 80 and 100. 80 is getting pretty rare. Do some Googling. The octane ratings of aviation fuel is very different from auto ratings.
Click to expand...

It's different up here in the boons I guess, but I can drive to my local air field and buy 100, or 80 low lead with a tail number. Every engine enjoys a little luberisity. 80 low led is the only thing that keeps my vintage bikes from pining since they banned the OTC led additive 9 years ago.
 
dravnx

dravnx

Well-known member
shouldnthave said:
It's different up here in the boons I guess, but I can drive to my local air field and buy 100, or 80 low lead with a tail number. Every engine enjoys a little luberisity. 80 low led is the only thing that keeps my vintage bikes from pining since they banned the OTC led additive 9 years ago.
Click to expand...

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-invented-180961368/
Lead was added as an anti knock formulation, not for lubrication. A higher octane will prevent pinging, not a lower octane.
 
T

treelogger

Well-known member
Lead free is available various places, sold mostly as racing gas, and for other unusual engines. I buy mine a Bayside Oil in Santa Cruz. It is VERY expensive, I think about $12 per gallon. It is unleaded, and I think it has 94 octane (although that might be measured different from on-road gasoline).

It is ILLEGAL to use on-road. Repeat, do not drive on a public road with this. By law, all gasoline used on-road in California has to be oxygenated, and ethanol is the most common way of doing that. Because of this, it is dyed, and theoretically can be detected in your tank if you are stopped (whether this ever

I go through a few gallons per month in chainsaws and similar power tools. The reason I buy it: (a) it doesn't age as fast as gasoline with ethanol (because ethanol is hygroscopic, and the water catalyzes the polymerization reaction that turns gasoline into varnish, which gums up small carburetors). (b) The various rubber components in small carburetors and in the fuel system live longer when not exposed to ethanol, MTBE, and other oxygenators.
 
D

dmfdmf

Still A Rook
treelogger said:
The reason I buy [ethanol free gas]: (a) it doesn't age as fast as gasoline with ethanol (because ethanol is hygroscopic, and the water catalyzes the polymerization reaction that turns gasoline into varnish, which gums up small carburetors).
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It is true that ethanol is hygroscopic, which means it readily absorbs water from the air. It does not turn gas into varnish but once bound to water, it forms its own goo that precipitates out of the gasoline solution, sinks to the bottom of the tank and clogs carbs, fuel pumps and injector orifices. This process occurs on the order a month or two but is dependent on local humidity. There is no known chemical additive that can prevent it.

Gas additives such as Sta-bil, Seafoam & etc. have no effect on this process. If you are going park your bike (or chainsaw) for a month or two and only have ethanol gas the best advice is to park it with the gas tank brimmed to the very top of the filler. This will minimize the surface area of gas in contact with air and thus minimize the absorption water available to combine with the ethanol. The worst thing to do is park a bike with 1/2 a tank of ethanol gas which maximizes the surface area in contact with the air.

Regarding gas additives like Sta-Bil or Seafoam & etc., these were developed way back in the 70's and solved the problem of slow oxidation of gasoline which formed gum deposits thus plugging tiny orifices in carbs & etc. This is a different problem from precipitates formed by the hydration of ethanol. Most of these additives got their start in marine use because boats would often go months without use and oxygen in the air would combine with hydrocarbons and form gum deposits that clogged orifices. Back then gasoline would start to gum up in a few months but modern gas is formulated with stabalizers and can go 6 months or more without significant gum formation.

The TLDU; If you are parking a bike for 6 months or less with ethanol gas, just brim the tank and you should be fine. For storage longer than 6 months brim the tank with non-ethanol gas and add Sta-Bil or whatever and you should be fine.

(b) The various rubber components in small carburetors and in the fuel system live longer when not exposed to ethanol, MTBE, and other oxygenators.
Click to expand...

True but oxygenators have been used in gas for nearly 20 years now and most carb/pump/injector manufacturers use seals compatible with modern fuels, so this is not a problem unless you have a vintage bike.
 
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