EBRP closing Chabot Gun Range

PhoS

PhoS

[ˈfäs]
succccccccccccks, bureaucracy at its best...

Chabot was easily one of the best ranges in the area..
 
Brokenlink

Brokenlink

Banned
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it is a resource and people enjoy shooting guns.

On the other hand, it is in the middle of a park and wildlife and hikers don't really enjoy hearing the sounds. And the lead issue is real. Tough call really. Ultimately it comes down to what EBRPD feels is in the best interest and within their scope of management. Gun range and natural resource management don't really go hand in hand.
 
Dubbington

Dubbington

Slamdunk Champion
Brokenlink said:
I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it is a resource and people enjoy shooting guns.

On the other hand, it is in the middle of a park and wildlife and hikers don't really enjoy hearing the sounds. And the lead issue is real. Tough call really. Ultimately it comes down to what EBRPD feels is in the best interest and within their scope of management. Gun range and natural resource management don't really go hand in hand.
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What came first, chicken or the egg. The range has been there since 1963 with no issues. Probably some scattered noise complaints, mainly from those that recently moved close by.

They (Chabot) screwed up by not purchasing the land or signing a longer lease. I have to imagine the Park Dept was eying the end of their lease for the past 5 years.

Was there any data for the lead contamination? I know the Parks Dept stated the cost it take to clean up the land and shockling their figure was grossly inflated according to Chabot's lawyers. Chabot said they could take care of it by raising fees and generating funds by also raising price of food etc. In addition to rent, Chabot also generated at least $40,000 a year for the Parks Dept.

So.....in 1 year when they close and it turns over to the Parks Dept, what happens? Chabot no longer involved to pay clean up which means good ole taxpayers are footing the bill for the clean up, if that even happens. Speculation is it wont ever get cleaned, just shuttered.
 
Dubbington

Dubbington

Slamdunk Champion
CoorsLight said:
Yes. Chabot has released the lead results themselves. They are usually out of compliance whenever it rains.

Are you suggesting that this is a cynical attack on the range using fabricated data?
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Hell Yes. I not for 1 second would accept any of the information the Parks Dept provided as 100% truthful.

Part of the argument to close was the cost it would take in lead abatement and that Chabot Gun range didnt have the funds. Chabot's attorneys said that number was grossly over based on their estimates. An inflated number paints a picture that Chabot does have the financial means to clean it up so the next 'logical' step is to close.

Just like in San Ramon, they're trying to build an HOV lane off Norris Canyon Rd but ONLY for UPS and deliveries. They are pumping out facts that it would decrease traffic, time, accidents blah blah blah. BS! They want a new off ramp because of the construction by Whole Foods that will turn into a Santana Row in San Ramon. The HOV lane would eventually turn into another off ramp. Not needed.
 
Brokenlink

Brokenlink

Banned
Dubbington said:
Hell Yes. I not for 1 second would accept any of the information the Parks Dept provided as 100% truthful.

Part of the argument to close was the cost it would take in lead abatement and that Chabot Gun range didnt have the funds. Chabot's attorneys said that number was grossly over based on their estimates. An inflated number paints a picture that Chabot does have the financial means to clean it up so the next 'logical' step is to close.

Just like in San Ramon, they're trying to build an HOV lane off Norris Canyon Rd but ONLY for UPS and deliveries. They are pumping out facts that it would decrease traffic, time, accidents blah blah blah. BS! They want a new off ramp because of the construction by Whole Foods that will turn into a Santana Row in San Ramon. The HOV lane would eventually turn into another off ramp. Not needed.
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While I do not know the specifics of this issue, I do know a bit about EBRPD and their leases and how that works. Basically they lease land for pretty damn cheap and the leasee is not on the hook for jack shit. Take Redwood Golf course. The old leasee let the place languish. EBRPD decided not to renew (or maybe they did, can't remember). EBRPD makes jack shit off this lease. The golf course is horrible for the local stream..... Millions in renovations and upgrades needed. Who's on the hook? Certainly not the leaseee, he walks away.


Anyways, if Chabot had the money, why weren't they proactive and start remediating? I have a hard time believing their side of the story in the exact same way you have a hard time believing the park's story. EBRPD is not a corporation or for-profit business.

Their mission statement is: The East Bay Regional Parks preserves a rich heritage of natural and cultural resources and provides open space, parks, trails, safe and healthful recreation and environmental education. An environmental ethic guides the District in all of its activities.


Sorry, but a gun range is not in line with this. And don;t get me wrong, I like guns and I like shooting them. But for the reasons above, I don't disagree with this action.
 
AbsolutEnduser

AbsolutEnduser

Throttle Pusher
CoorsLight said:
You should listen to the Forum podcast. There is no debate over the validity of the lead measurements.
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I don't think it's true. Just because scientists say so doesn't mean it's true--there's probably money behind this and it's a big scam!

This is just "government bureaucracy" !!!
 
Dubbington

Dubbington

Slamdunk Champion
Brokenlink said:
While I do not know the specifics of this issue, I do know a bit about EBRPD and their leases and how that works. Basically they lease land for pretty damn cheap and the leasee is not on the hook for jack shit. Take Redwood Golf course. The old leasee let the place languish. EBRPD decided not to renew (or maybe they did, can't remember). EBRPD makes jack shit off this lease. The golf course is horrible for the local stream..... Millions in renovations and upgrades needed. Who's on the hook? Certainly not the leaseee, he walks away.


Anyways, if Chabot had the money, why weren't they proactive and start remediating? I have a hard time believing their side of the story in the exact same way you have a hard time believing the park's story. EBRPD is not a corporation or for-profit business.

Their mission statement is: The East Bay Regional Parks preserves a rich heritage of natural and cultural resources and provides open space, parks, trails, safe and healthful recreation and environmental education. An environmental ethic guides the District in all of its activities.


Sorry, but a gun range is not in line with this. And don;t get me wrong, I like guns and I like shooting them. But for the reasons above, I don't disagree with this action.
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Funny how we view things differently. Their non-profit status is was scares me. Whats behind the closure? They wait 5 years, let the dust settle and then come out with some plan to donate land to a developer for low income or green housing. Who knows. Or build new state of the art ranger head quartes on the tax payers dime. Very easy to show the land is being 'destroyed' by these deviant gun owners. Get backers, win vote, get land and year or so later build on it and never clean it up. I've seen and heard too many instances where city or gov't land is covertly transferred benefiting gov't and developers, never the people.

Hell, they are purposefully killing off the Newt and salamander population that used be rampant in Creek that runs parallel to Norris Canyon. Why? So when they go to add more homes and more roads they can say they aren't hurting any wild life because none is there. My parents backyard backs up to the creek and several times during the year a large amount of water suddenly flows through the creek. We havent seen the salamanders and newts in years. It's run off from several of the properties in Wiedeman area.

Again, happened in San Ramon with the widening of norris canyon, with the building of several short stay hotel. With all those homes they built in Norris Canyon. City had a rule/zoning law that buildings couldnt be a certain height. A developer got involved and suddenly that rule was no longer 'that important' and the several of the hotels were built.

I'm not subscribing to the idea it's to preserve the land due to lead, there's other things at play here.

Edited cuz I typed fast and left out some details.
 
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Brokenlink

Brokenlink

Banned
Dubbington said:
Funny how we view things differently. Their non-profit status is was scares me. Whats behind the closure? They wait 5 years, let the dust settle and then come out with some plan to donate land to a developer for low income or green housing. Who knows. Or build new state of the art ranger head quartes on the tax payers dime. Very easy to show the land is being 'destroyed' by these deviant gun owners. Get backers, win vote, get land and year or so later build on it and never clean it up. I've seen and heard too many instances where city or gov't land is covertly transferred benefiting gov't and developers, never the people.

Hell, they are purposefully killing off the Newt and salamander population that used be rampant in that creek. Why? So when they go to add more homes and more roads they can say they are hurting any wild life because none is there. My parents backyard backs up to the creek and several times during the year a large amount of water suddenly flows through the creek. We havent seen the salamanders and newts in years.

Again, happened in San Ramon with the widening of norris canyon, with the building of several short stay hotel. With all those homes they built in Norris Canyon. City had a rule/zoning law that buildings couldnt be a certain height. A developer got involved and suddenly that rule was no longer 'that important' and the several of the hotels were built.

I'm not subscribing to the idea it's to preserve the land due to lead, there's other things at play here.
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WTF?

Dude, the whole purpose of the EBRPD is PRESERVE AND PROTECT LAND FOR NATURAL AND CULTURAL RESOURCES. Trust me, their not going ot sell it to a developer. And they have a nice new headquarters building. Maybe, instead of a giant conspiracy to destroy the salamanders and build a huge Octoplex for ewaste disposal, they are trying to clean up bad habits. Maybe, if gun owners and lobbyists agreed to use non-lead ammo, this wouldn't ber an issue. But you guys want your cake and you want them to feed it to you one bite at a time.
 
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