Down In Calaveras

[flying_hun]

The discussion is all good, but I still wonder about what exactly can be done at the moment when you have already committed hot into the turn, find you are going wide, and are ready to bail the turn?

Look towards the exit - where you want to go, this is key - and push on the inside grip to tighten your line. I would argue that failing to do the first step, putting your eyes where you want to go, will almost certainly result in you not completing the turn. There may be exceptions to that, but they are exactly that, exceptions.

There are a few other things to do, depending on circumstances, but those are subordinate to the above.

 

[Enchanter]

The discussion is all good, but I still wonder about what exactly can be done at the moment when you have already committed hot into the turn, find you are going wide, and are ready to bail the turn?

Look through the turn, get off the brakes, go to maintenance throttle, lean the bike (counter-steer), don't give up. Try to make the turn. If the pegs or other hard-parts aren't touching the ground, you can lean more.

 

[bcv_west]

The discussion is all good, but I still wonder about what exactly can be done at the moment when you have already committed hot into the turn, find you are going wide, and are ready to bail the turn?

Move your head and shoulders to the inside as you countersteer, and look through the turn. Practice that over and over in non-panics so it's automatic, since the fear response is to look at the wall/cliff/ditch/oncoming car. The head/shoulders move will remind you to look through the turn, and help shift your weight inside to save some lean angle as the turn tightens up. Note I said shift head/shoulders, don't try to shift your seat or lean off mid-turn, you'll just upset the bike.

 

[ScottRNelson]

The discussion is all good, but I still wonder about what exactly can be done at the moment when you have already committed hot into the turn, find you are going wide, and are ready to bail the turn?

One issue I've noticed, and more so with newer riders, is that they don't get leaned over enough at the beginning of the turn. They're totally off of the optimal line and don't realize it until half-way through and by then it's too late.

If you start your turn from the inside of the lane, as the original poster admitted to doing, that alone will push you to the outside for an equal speed at corner entry. You often can't lean as hard into the turn at the beginning when you do that without crossing the center line (left turns) or going off the inside of the turn (right turns).

I still claim that picking a proper line through a turn and sticking with it is a way bigger help than "leaning it over more". If you know the line you want through the turn you realize way sooner when you're off line and can get more lean in sooner where it can make a difference in getting through the corner.

 

[danate]

Look through the turn, get off the brakes, go to maintenance throttle, lean the bike (counter-steer), don't give up. Try to make the turn. If the legs or other hard-parts aren't touching the ground, you can lean more.

Look towards the exit - where you want to go, this is key - and push on the inside grip to tighten your line. I would argue that failing to do the first step, putting your eyes where you want to go, will almost certainly result in you not completing the turn. There may be exceptions to that, but they are exactly that, exceptions.

There are a few other things to do, depending on circumstances, but those are subordinate to the above.

These are the key. Since I first started riding, I have said two things to myself in any turn I feel I am going too fast in:

"Look further through the turn" and "Push harder"

It may sound silly, but saying that to myself as an instruction allows my body to follow suit. When I was starting out and would have the occasional panic moment (which can happen even at very reasonable speeds), I'd just tell myself to look further and push harder and my body would do just that. This helped me to understand my own limits and the limits of my bike better (especially the first time I ended up dragging a peg feeler and realized I needed to make bigger adjustments to my riding).

I think the main points have been pretty well covered. Avoid the above by choosing your entry speed and line and when in doubt, slow down before the turn.

 

[parainbow]

+1 on all of the above.

Picked this up at an intro track course, and use it for every curve. It somehow clicked in my thick Neanderthal skull:

Pull your chin as close to your wrist (in the direction of the turn) as possible. This puts your upper body in proper alignment, and should also get you to weight the outside peg, while keeping the number of brain cells involved to a minimum. It also gets my sloping forehead pointed in the correct direction, and makes it harder to look down (don't do that). Keep them elbows down and don't squeeze the juice out of your grips.

 

[Smash Allen]

Lots of good advice here which many can benefit from.

I had a similar experience with a different outcome while at Thunderhill. I chose a deeper than normal braking point at turn 14 and as I got leaned into the turn I found that I was countersteering more than normal in order to make the turn. This ended up with me dragging my peg-feelers and I still wasn't going to make it, so I shifted my upper body to the inside and kept focused on my exit point. I got real close to running wide but I stayed on track and that was all because I kept focused on where I wanted to go and when my bike couldn't lean more I leaned myself over. Proper body positioning would have had me leaning more to begin with and the peg feelers would never have touched the ground, but hey it was my first track day and it was on my FZ-09

 

[ScottRNelson]

so I shifted my upper body to the inside and kept focused on my exit point.

Moving around on the bike while already in a turn is likely to upset the balance of the bike. At least, that's what I get from reading Keith Code's books. But if that's the only way to stop stuff from scraping, sounds like you gotta do it.

 

[ontherearwheel]

There are two points totally overlooked.....practicing this kinda of riding on Calaveras and only have ridden it three times.

Being unfamiliar with a road is not the road you want to practice on. There are other roads much better suited to learn on. Think about what would happen if a car was coming the other way.

Practicing is good for sure, but do so on a road that is much safer.

On a unfamiliar road, riding within your sight lines is key to survival.

 

[flying_hun]

On a unfamiliar road, riding within your sight lines is key to survival.

On ANY road, riding within your sight lines is key to survival.

 

[ScottRNelson]

On ANY road, riding within your sight lines is key to survival.

And Calaveras has quite a few turns where your sight lines don't go very far. Especially if you're headed in the southbound direction. You have to take some of the corners at a pretty slow speed to ride within your sight lines.

 

[Bootworks]

Nothing major lost as long as you're OK and the bike is relatively OK. We've all done it. The thing to deal with is your confidence: Too much (over-rating yourself) is just as bad as too little (becoming too tentative after a crash.) The self analysis is really healthy, particularly if you're not in denial or shifting responsibility to "circumstances beyond your control".

You've already self-defined the cause of the crash, you got into the turn too hot for your existing skill level. I would suggest going back to Calaveras and re-running the same route at a slighlty more deliberate pace concentrating on inputs, vision and lines. I'd argue that the top riders will run an (unfamiliar) course at a deliberate pace, studying and making muscle-memory adjustments of the route, before giving it the berries. No shame in that.

Acquiring riding skills is a life-long journey, show me a rider who thinks he knows it all and I'll show you a fool. The fact that you're dissecting the events and rising above them is to your credit.

 

[injun]

Just remember the bike can out perform most riding skills, so sometimes you should take a chance.

But then again should you be doing that on the public roads?

I did all the roads in the Gold Country for years.

And they are GREAT!

 

[Hammerstime]

Biggest mistake was trying this on Calaveras. Like everyone else has said, bad sight lines, mostly single lane, very bumpy and usually very dirty. Glad to hear your ok as this could have been much worse. I don't know how many times I've come around a corner and had some donk in a cage running in the middle of the road. Niles and Palmeros would have been a better.

I also like to play the "no touching of the brakes" game, but I had many, many years
(Both dirt and street)experience before trying to do so. Hwy84 and Pescadero Rd. are some of my favorite roads and at one time. I was riding that area almost every weekend. Got to a point were a knew the road pretty well and one day go stuck behind a cage. In stead of trying to pass the cage, I decided to see how far I could go without touching the brakes and adjusting my speed right before a turn. I made sure no one was behind me and I let faster riders pass. If I remember correctly, I set my speed at 35mph. I knew I had been through most, if not all of the turns at a higher pace. On the straights I kept my speed the same. The only time I used the brakes, was to keep my speed at 35 and well before turn it points on the down hill sections. The throttle was used very carefully. By keeping the speed set, I was usually already on the gas when I entered the turn and could really focus on other aspects of the turn. I would make mental notes when I didn't make the turn as cleanly as should have and tried to not make the same mistake in the same corner next time.

One thing you have to remember. The bike will go where your head, hands and hips tell it to go. Always look where you want to go, not what your trying to avoid. Never give up on a turn. Think of yourself as the frog in the mouth of the pelican and strangle that dude until you make it out.

Be safe out there and if you need or want some help. I'm in your area. Just send me a pm and we'll set up a date. :thumbuparty

 

[ontherearwheel]

If you know the road, you will not be surprised by what the road does in your line of sight whereas not knowing the road, you can be surprised by what the road does in your line of sight, this thread is a example.

Also, knowing the road, you already have a very good reference point for what speed that corner can be done at.

There's a fast guy at work. He rides a lot on 25. He made a statement that he could hang with me on any road. My road of choice was Page Mill. He has never ridden Page Mill. Pointed that fact out to him. His reply was that he just needed to ride it three times.

I just shook my head. There is no way anyone can ride Page Mill three times and know every turn, bump, manhole cover,driveway, tar strip and so on.

And it's a different road going down and going up.

This is why where one decides to practice is just as important as to what and how one practices.

Not sure this would interest you, but Zoom Zoom has a program called Road Rider. There's two coming up at Sears.....oops......Infineon.....oops.....Sonoma.

It a combination of class room, parking lot drills, and track time in C group. My seem pricey at first, but just may save ya bunch also in the long run. I have no connection with them. I just saw one at T hill recently and thought it was a good idea.

 

[flying_hun]

If you're out riding your sight line, you're out riding your sight line. It's not a track, there are no marshalls, no flags, and you really have no way of knowing what or who is just around the next bend - cyclists, a u-turning tour-on, a parked dump truck, a tweaker coming the other way in your lane.

 

[NorCal Factory]

Keep in mind there is a time and place for everything. Traffic and sight lines and condition of the road are all critical. Pushing it on a right turn means if you go wide you are in the other lane which if there is a pickup truck coming your MC career will be pretty short.

Going out to a backroad was a good idea. As noted by the others there are other less than optimum issues with Calaveres. The risk impact for making a mistake can be greatly reduced. Being more conservative on right turns or blind turns or left turns with an embankment on the shoulder is best. Going out on off peak times is safer due to lack of traffic, but adds risk if you are by yourself if you need medical help.

I always have more fun when you can see past the turn to have good sight lines. A lot of turns on Mines road, and Hwy 25 30 minutes south of Hollister have those turns.

All the racetracks do to. Sign up for a school. Two day schools are best.Good luck!