California Motorcycle Rider Unification Rally - Oct 2014
- Thread starter BobbyT
- Start date
Unicorn Power
My cat uses toilets
This should have more exposure on the forums. Any way for a mod to move this to General?
More info here:
http://www.williamweisslaw.com/unification-rally-of-california-motorcyclists-slated-for-october-25th-at-the-state-capital-in-sacramento/
More info here:
http://www.williamweisslaw.com/unification-rally-of-california-motorcyclists-slated-for-october-25th-at-the-state-capital-in-sacramento/
RealOaklander
Zen Master
I was searching Google and it looks like there is now a website as well.
Appears to have more information about the rally.
I was at the last one. I have heard through the grapevine that the sheer number and diversity of the riders and bikes, did cause the politicians in Sacto to start to take the motorcycle rider constituency more seriously. I even think that it may have been connected to a certain bill never getting out of committee (i.e., not even going far enough for a vote.)
What someone told me is that the politicians are kind of boneheaded, but they seem to respond to *numbers* - since numbers = potential votes. That person was suggesting that the numbers alone, can become part of the primary message.
RO
Appears to have more information about the rally.
I was at the last one. I have heard through the grapevine that the sheer number and diversity of the riders and bikes, did cause the politicians in Sacto to start to take the motorcycle rider constituency more seriously. I even think that it may have been connected to a certain bill never getting out of committee (i.e., not even going far enough for a vote.)
What someone told me is that the politicians are kind of boneheaded, but they seem to respond to *numbers* - since numbers = potential votes. That person was suggesting that the numbers alone, can become part of the primary message.
RO
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RealOaklander
Zen Master
Coolness!
The word is people are hoping for at least 10k bikes this time around. I think BobbyT is smart for posting here at BARF. I think when I had a Buell, years back, I spent some time on this forum, and it has a great reputation here in NorCal and around.
When the various groups (types and styles of riders/bikes, etc.) unite - then it just becomes a huge voting bloc. Such blocs are impossible for politicians and other policymakers to ignore. They ignore us at their own political peril.
And the typical reason "uniting" seems to not just happen, is the same for every movement: people in power seek to divide.
The Romans even had a name for it - it was "divide et impera." It is an ancient political trick.
I saw this on the 2A movement, actually. It still happens, but not as much. The classic division tactic that politicians used in the 2A movement was to pit hunters (wood and metal "bolt actions") up against EBR ("evil black rifle" - AR/AK/FAL) people. People literally voted against their own interest, based merely on the style of firearms they owned.
The hunters thought the EBR people were "crazy," and the EBR people used to call the hunters "Elmer Fudds" - can't make this crap up.
It was crazy!
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I started riding in 1974 and my first "bike" had a Briggs & Stratton. I have ridden or owned every style of motorcycle around, including a trials bike. It just seems to me that we all have more in common, than we tend to think.
Much respect.
RO
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oaklandish
Lion of Judah
last time this was posted there was some negativity from truly ignorant people. If you're not putting a rally together of your own or offering some type of show of unity please don't hate on this one.
this will be my 3rd time
this will be my 3rd time
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RealOaklander
Zen Master
Thank you brother. Yes - I recall reading that thread.
Years ago, pretty much anyone on a motorcycle was looked down upon by people in cages. Now it appears that a small minority of people in the motorcycling community like to do the same "looking down" thing. I also suspect that some of the people who were anonymously posting in that particular thread, were not really who they claimed to be.
It is my wish that the moderators here work to help keep this thread on topic, since in the end, much of the general public pretty much lumps everyone together. Whatever petty and useless division we see among our own motorcycling communities, means absolutely nothing to many people in cages.
Going back to the 2A stuff, many of the current laws were rammed through by basically getting the hunters to hate on the EBR people. What eventually happened was that politicians started calling hunting rifles "sniper rifles" and the hunters realized that they were "next" on the political hitlist.
They finally joined in the fight. But for about 30 years, hunters were kind of duped into thinking that they could preserve their own civil rights, by stomping on the civil rights of groups that they did not understand. In the end, and in the eyes of many non-riders, we are ALL THE SAME. And the truth is, we actually are all the same.
We have the same interests, the same goals, and the same opposition.
The big lie is that we do not. That lie comes from people in power.
Much respect. Just my two cents.
RO
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RealOaklander
Zen Master
Thank you D!!!!
I suspect that BobbyT will be along in a few days with more news as well. My intuition is that people are working on parking logistics, porta-potties, etc. as we speak.
What was really cool about the last one is that the community actually left the rally site CLEANER than we found it. Unlike many large political gatherings, we self-policed. I think the workers there at the capital appreciated that. I saw several yards-keepers there at the last one. I suspect they were expecting a big mess. LOL, we helped make their job easy by cleaning up after ourselves.
The people in Sacto notice this kind of stuff, and it reflects well on the community.
Much respect,
RO
rosemont83
Knowledge is Power
In Sacramento, I can probably make that.
What rights are we defending?
What rights are we defending?
RealOaklander
Zen Master
Cool - I think there is a FB page somewhere. Will post more details as they become available. As I recall from the last one, people were concerned about new laws that affect motorcycle riders.
After the last one, it is my understanding that politicians in Sacto are now aware of the combined political power of the motorcycle riding community. Before the last rally, they would just ram through laws. Now, I think they are going to be more careful.
The issue with nearly ANY motorcycle "safety" law is that it can give LE probable cause to pull you over. Moving forward, there are many people who want new laws to be evidence-based law, and not just "feel good" laws. Often, the new laws are proposed by people who (1) either have nothing to do with riding, or (2) industry groups that seek to gain if a new law is passed.
Again - I will go back to 2A stuff because I am familiar with it.
Pretty much ANY TIME you see a new law regarding "ammo restrictions" - those laws are supported by gun shops. This is changing slightly now - but the idea was to restrict where people could buy ammo. This eliminates competition in the market, but has zero impact on public safety. People who really want to get ammo will simply import it from out of state on the black market.
Gun shops "win" by creating a monopoly on supply, and politicians "win" by looking like they are concerned about public safety. We-the-people LOSE because ammo becomes expensive, and requires interaction with the state (read "ammo permits.")
Again - criminals simply do not follow laws. Only law abiding people follow laws. The people who would thus follow any new "ammo" laws are simply not the people who "need" to follow them. It's all kabuki theater.
I think that the new "noise regs" are almost the same. I think that by restricting aftermarket exhaust to "approved" (read "factory") pipes - the dealerships and big OEM's win. At the expense of smaller shops and aftermarket suppliers. People who want loud bikes will just ignore the laws anyways. There is simply no win in this - EXCEPT a financial win for the large market actors and politicians who are involved.
Politics is like sausage. When you really know how things are done - you will be sickened. Just my two cents.
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rosemont83
Knowledge is Power
Oh I'm very familiar with politicians :teeth
Us NRA guys don't like those ammo laws..
RealOaklander
Zen Master
Oh I'm very familiar with politicians :teeth
Us NRA guys don't like those ammo laws..
Amen - CRPA and CGF hate them too. It's all economics and political corruption.
Much respect. I only speak for me.
Surj
Uneasy Rider
Since no one else has linked to it, here's the Facebook page. Or at least one of them—the info on this event is very uh, distributed. And here's the page for the Motorcycle Unification Movement.
And here's the US Defenders California page, which was the most structured, informative page that existed last time—although the info there is still from the January rally.
You mean this thread, right? Sure, there was some negativity and doubt—and rightfully so, given the nature of some of the "issues." Quite frankly, expressing doubt/asking questions/stating opinions like "I don't care about that supposed issue because" or stating facts like "there's no legislation that will force motorcyclists to wear high-viz vests" aren't negativity, and certainly not "ignorance." That's discussion.
If "we" (as in all riders) want unity, which is actually an open question, we must be able to engage in questions and discussion without being labeled as ignorant/haters/whatever. This happens all the time, not just in that thread, but often when discussing these issues with members of many of the orgs involved with the event. Not a good way to create unity.
Respectfully, while we do share one common interest, motorcycles, "we" have many goals, and in some cases, different opposition. That's not a lie perpetrated by those in power, but reality. Ignoring that, and labeling those who point that out or disagree—which has been a tactic employed by some of those in this "movement," is counter-productive to unity. You have only to review "that thread" or talk to some non-MC riders to see that while we all rider motorcycles (to some extent, at least) our interests and goals diverge wildly beyond that.
Consider lane splitting, for example. If we all care about keeping splitting legal, then the anti-helmet crowd needs to stop insulting riders who wear helmets and don't care about repealing the helmet law in CA as haters of freedom, commies, sheep, etc, and agree to stop bickering work together on an actual common goal—keeping splitting legal.
The movement needs to stop shouting about non-issues if it wants to be taken seriously by other motorcyclists, regular folks, and legislators. Group riding regulations, conspicuity laws, and so on—yeah, I don't want to be forced to wear a reflective vest or whatever, but riling up a bunch of bikers about this "issue" when there's no known legislation puts a great big tin foil hat on the "movement." Note that the website linked to by Unicorn Power calls out "potential legislation" on lane splitting and conspicuity—there is none. Same as in January. I'm not saying don't talk about these things, but let's stick to facts.
Another big problem is that the "unification movement" is largely talking to MCs. We haven't seen any info other here on BARF (which if you haven't noticed, has one or two riders hanging around and is actually something of a moto-political powerhouse) other than this flyer. I've seen tiny cards in Dudley Perkins H-D, for example, but no one has reached out to me at CityBike or LaneSplittingIsLegal and I see very little outreach to non-MC rider groups.
And before anyone asks, yeah, I was there in January. I was the guy in textile gear. :laughing You can actually see me smack dab in the middle of the cover photo on the October rally Facebook page—I'm the guy in the black Dainese jacket with a shaved head and black baseball hat. You can read my take on the last rally in "that thread" or starting on page 3 of the February 2014 issue of CityBike (PDF).
--
By the way, if you want to make progress with drivers (the massive majority compared to us) a good start would be to stop referring to them with demeaning names like "cager." We can't expect anyone to listen when we start the conversation in an insulting tone. Or when we boo the lone politician (Assemblyman Ken Cooley) that shows up for a rally right off the stage, like happened in January.
And here's the US Defenders California page, which was the most structured, informative page that existed last time—although the info there is still from the January rally.
You mean this thread, right? Sure, there was some negativity and doubt—and rightfully so, given the nature of some of the "issues." Quite frankly, expressing doubt/asking questions/stating opinions like "I don't care about that supposed issue because" or stating facts like "there's no legislation that will force motorcyclists to wear high-viz vests" aren't negativity, and certainly not "ignorance." That's discussion.
If "we" (as in all riders) want unity, which is actually an open question, we must be able to engage in questions and discussion without being labeled as ignorant/haters/whatever. This happens all the time, not just in that thread, but often when discussing these issues with members of many of the orgs involved with the event. Not a good way to create unity.
Respectfully, while we do share one common interest, motorcycles, "we" have many goals, and in some cases, different opposition. That's not a lie perpetrated by those in power, but reality. Ignoring that, and labeling those who point that out or disagree—which has been a tactic employed by some of those in this "movement," is counter-productive to unity. You have only to review "that thread" or talk to some non-MC riders to see that while we all rider motorcycles (to some extent, at least) our interests and goals diverge wildly beyond that.
Consider lane splitting, for example. If we all care about keeping splitting legal, then the anti-helmet crowd needs to stop insulting riders who wear helmets and don't care about repealing the helmet law in CA as haters of freedom, commies, sheep, etc, and agree to stop bickering work together on an actual common goal—keeping splitting legal.
The movement needs to stop shouting about non-issues if it wants to be taken seriously by other motorcyclists, regular folks, and legislators. Group riding regulations, conspicuity laws, and so on—yeah, I don't want to be forced to wear a reflective vest or whatever, but riling up a bunch of bikers about this "issue" when there's no known legislation puts a great big tin foil hat on the "movement." Note that the website linked to by Unicorn Power calls out "potential legislation" on lane splitting and conspicuity—there is none. Same as in January. I'm not saying don't talk about these things, but let's stick to facts.
Another big problem is that the "unification movement" is largely talking to MCs. We haven't seen any info other here on BARF (which if you haven't noticed, has one or two riders hanging around and is actually something of a moto-political powerhouse) other than this flyer. I've seen tiny cards in Dudley Perkins H-D, for example, but no one has reached out to me at CityBike or LaneSplittingIsLegal and I see very little outreach to non-MC rider groups.
And before anyone asks, yeah, I was there in January. I was the guy in textile gear. :laughing You can actually see me smack dab in the middle of the cover photo on the October rally Facebook page—I'm the guy in the black Dainese jacket with a shaved head and black baseball hat. You can read my take on the last rally in "that thread" or starting on page 3 of the February 2014 issue of CityBike (PDF).
--
By the way, if you want to make progress with drivers (the massive majority compared to us) a good start would be to stop referring to them with demeaning names like "cager." We can't expect anyone to listen when we start the conversation in an insulting tone. Or when we boo the lone politician (Assemblyman Ken Cooley) that shows up for a rally right off the stage, like happened in January.
RealOaklander
Zen Master
Surj - much respect. I think you were one of the people who worked to preserve lane splitting.
Nobody really speaks for anyone. It is possible that the distibuted nature of this event is intentional. But I have no idea. Based on what I have heard, the most basic concept here is just to get a large number of people who ride motorcycles to show up in Sacto.
With respect to the previous dialog, there were at least 8500 people at the last rally.
That means there are at least 8500 different opinions. The reason I say "at least" is because opinions can change over time.
Re: riders, of which there are millions, each rider will have a different opinion. And those will change over time as well.
Just mathematically, it is impossible for any one person, movement, etc. to speak for everyone, or to include every possible permutation of opinion or viewpoint. It would literally be 10's of millions of different opinions, viewpoints, etc. It is simply not possible to create a platform that will make every person happy.
In general - I think the idea is just to show Sacto that riders are also voters. The last event definitely did that. This one can do the same.
I spent years helping organize the 2A movement, and I am nobody. I learned that internal division is what is always used to stop people from joining together. At the most basic level, simply having a large number of people show up in Sacto will send a clear message to politicians that people who ride motorcycles "are a constituency."
What people do with "that" is up to them.
Again, this is all just my personal opinion. And as you know, opinions are like bungholes, since everyone has one.
Again, much respect for your service on the lane-splitting issue.
RO
Nobody really speaks for anyone. It is possible that the distibuted nature of this event is intentional. But I have no idea. Based on what I have heard, the most basic concept here is just to get a large number of people who ride motorcycles to show up in Sacto.
With respect to the previous dialog, there were at least 8500 people at the last rally.
That means there are at least 8500 different opinions. The reason I say "at least" is because opinions can change over time.
Re: riders, of which there are millions, each rider will have a different opinion. And those will change over time as well.
Just mathematically, it is impossible for any one person, movement, etc. to speak for everyone, or to include every possible permutation of opinion or viewpoint. It would literally be 10's of millions of different opinions, viewpoints, etc. It is simply not possible to create a platform that will make every person happy.
In general - I think the idea is just to show Sacto that riders are also voters. The last event definitely did that. This one can do the same.
I spent years helping organize the 2A movement, and I am nobody. I learned that internal division is what is always used to stop people from joining together. At the most basic level, simply having a large number of people show up in Sacto will send a clear message to politicians that people who ride motorcycles "are a constituency."
What people do with "that" is up to them.
Again, this is all just my personal opinion. And as you know, opinions are like bungholes, since everyone has one.
Again, much respect for your service on the lane-splitting issue.
RO
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RealOaklander
Zen Master
Ya - I saw that to.
I don't know who made those, but I imagine they will see this post and correct it. As Surj has noted, the event is kind of asymmetrically distributed.
As far as I can tell, there is no single "leader." And like I said, that may be intentional. But I honestly do not know.
We often put stock in "leaders." They often fail us.
My purpose here is just to let people know about the event. I heard about it from a friend. I have ridden a long time. I may have done some political things in the past. From experience, unity does not require conformity. It is possible to have unity and diversity of thought/tactics. In fact, in my personal opinion, that's actually better for many types of movements.
Unity means generally going in same direction. It is not the same as marching in utter lockstep.
But again, just my personal opinion. And opinions are like armpits.
Much respect to all,
RO
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oaklandish
Lion of Judah
there was not more than 5000 people at the last rally but that's not really important. like I said last year;
this rally would and will happen even if there are no "issues" at hand. that's not why it was started by the MBCOC so asking what we're fighting for isn't going to get you a clear answer. different people are going for different reasons so stop speaking for anyone but yourself (in terms of what you think it should be about/accomplish or should do to be taken seriously...).
hope to see y'all out there supporting motorcycles in general.
this rally would and will happen even if there are no "issues" at hand. that's not why it was started by the MBCOC so asking what we're fighting for isn't going to get you a clear answer. different people are going for different reasons so stop speaking for anyone but yourself (in terms of what you think it should be about/accomplish or should do to be taken seriously...).
hope to see y'all out there supporting motorcycles in general.
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RealOaklander
Zen Master
Yes. ^^^
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The 8500 number is from people who were on stage and have said that number to my face. They are people who have reputations for hating lies. I was one of the people on stage as well. I also hate lies.
5000 was the original "guesstimate" number that was being tossed around on the day of the event.
It was revised to 8500 after some key organizers did a longer analysis of the post-event videos and photos. The NorCal pack alone was four miles long, and was estimated to be 3000 bikes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFzFqSor6K0 (language NSFW.)
I am nobody in the grand scheme, but I was somewhat tangentially involved in the planning process and social media/PR strategy on the first one. Same on this one.
That is how I know certain things about this one. I can therefore make a pretty good case that when I say things, they are 100 percent accurate. They are not speculation, and I know more than I can say.
Also, much respect to MBCOC. This was and is a team effort.
There were multiple COCs, BROs, and other groups and associations who were and are involved. This was also statewide, and that is why you saw a lot of different colors and faces on stage.
We all speak only for ourselves in this short life we all live. Internet arguments are not productive. Judging is not productive.
Much respect and blessings,
RO
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Surj
Uneasy Rider
Thanks RO, I do what I can but the folks who really deserve the credit here are the Challenge Area 12 members like our own Budman and many other Barfers behind the scenes.
I find your thoughtful, reasoned approach refreshing. It's a shame that more conversations can't happen like this, rather than "stop giving your opinion."
Agreed that the movement can't represent everything, but there are some things we probably could all get behind if well-informed. Lane splitting is certainly one of those thing.
That's one of the things my frustration with the lack of organization stems from—I've talked with many folks (including speakers and organizers) and haven't heard of a single meeting with a legislator after the last rally. 5,000, 8,000, whatever the number... it's still easy to write us off when all we do is show up at in Sac on a non-legislator workday and make some noise, and then go away for a few months or more. I know that's not exactly what happens and that some people are working tirelessly beyond the rallies, but it's not that far off, and not harnessing that momentum means we don't accomplish much. That's a bummer for the folks who actually do put time in and attend meetings, meet with legislators and media, and so on.
It's a real shame that your response to opinions that don't jive with yours is just "no."
I'm not asking what we are fighting for, I'm calling out that the things we're fighting against, as defined by the organizers, in some cases don't exist. That hurts credibility, and it wastes the time of real people who are a limited resource in terms of the time and attention they can give when there are real issues to address.
Also, I don't think I've ever said I speak for anyone other than myself, but I do have access to a lot of riders and it's easy to see that I'm not the only one with similar questions and opinions.
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