brake pad life?

[deathbug74]

First of all, bike is an 06 Ninja 500; mostly commute miles, some mountains, no track.

At around 20k (maybe 21k), the front pads were done (they were on the bike when I bought it at 14k), so I replaced them with a set of Galfer pads from cycle gear..not sure on exactly WHICH ones, I just asked them for pads for the bike, and they handed me these.

Fast forward a few months; with all the bad weather, and a lot of other stuff going on, I haven't put a lot of miles on the bike (it's right around 24k now). Front brakes started feeling like they're gripping less today, so when I get home from work, start taking a closer look (pull the caliper off) and discover one of the pads (piston side) has worn all the way through the friction material at once end, and the metal backing plate is contacting the disc (no wonder it wasn't stopping well) :wow

Something is a little off, in that the other pad (slide side) still has a bit of friction material left, though it's worn down pretty far as well. Is this normal life for brake pads? Based on the life of the last set, I'm leaning toward not.

Thoughts? Suggestions for some better wearing pads that still stop well for street riding?

 

[Ghost8475]

First of all, bike is an 06 Ninja 500; mostly commute miles, some mountains, no track.

At around 20k (maybe 21k), the front pads were done (they were on the bike when I bought it at 14k), so I replaced them with a set of Galfer pads from cycle gear..not sure on exactly WHICH ones, I just asked them for pads for the bike, and they handed me these.

Fast forward a few months; with all the bad weather, and a lot of other stuff going on, I haven't put a lot of miles on the bike (it's right around 24k now). Front brakes started feeling like they're gripping less today, so when I get home from work, start taking a closer look (pull the caliper off) and discover one of the pads (piston side) has worn all the way through the friction material at once end, and the metal backing plate is contacting the disc (no wonder it wasn't stopping well) :wow

Something is a little off, in that the other pad (slide side) still has a bit of friction material left, though it's worn down pretty far as well. Is this normal life for brake pads? Based on the life of the last set, I'm leaning toward not.

Thoughts? Suggestions for some better wearing pads that still stop well for street riding?

When I replaced mine, they were worn differently, but not metal to metal (I have a 500r as well). I would change them to the organic galfer pads; I have them on my bike, and they are good enough to lock the breaks ups. That and unlike the metallic breaks, they don't need to be heated up to work properly.

 

[afm199]

A. You have to check your brakes often.
B. You get what you pay for.
C. above post is wrong for many reasons. Metallic pads do NOT need heating up unless they are high end race pads. Organic pads DO NOT stop better and they don't work well on rotors that have been used with semi metallic pads unless the rotors are cleaned. And good enough to lock up the brakes is not how you judge brake pads. suggest a good grade HH semi metallic pad from Galfer, EBC or the stock OEM pads.

 

[mototireguy]

Front brakes started feeling like they're gripping less today, so when I get home from work, start taking a closer look (pull the caliper off) and discover one of the pads (piston side) has worn all the way through the friction material at once end, and the metal backing plate is contacting the disc (no wonder it wasn't stopping well) :wow

If the friction material was worn thru all the way down to the metal backing plate you have most likely damaged/gouged/scored your brake rotor.

Not only do you need new $40 brake pads but now you also need new $200 brake rotors.

And no you cannot resurface your old damaged brake rotors.

 

[msethhunter]

One thing that a lot of people often tend to miss as well, if you run a high end brake pad material, you should have your rotors bead blasted before you install the new pads. The pads you buy should have some paper work on them about it. If the pads require it, and you don't, it will be hard to get them to seat, and they will stop like crap untill they do, which could take a while.

 

[afm199]

One thing that a lot of people often tend to miss as well, if you run a high end brake pad material, you should have your rotors bead blasted before you install the new pads. The pads you buy should have some paper work on them about it. If the pads require it, and you don't, it will be hard to get them to seat, and they will stop like crap untill they do, which could take a while.

No, if you run semi metallic, they work by depositing material on rotors and that should be cleaned off. Look at rotors with organic pads.. Rotors are always super shiny and wear quickly. Rotors with semi metallic pads always have a deposit on them.

 

[msethhunter]

No, if you run semi metallic, they work by depositing material on rotors and that should be cleaned off. Look at rotors with organic pads.. Rotors are always super shiny and wear quickly. Rotors with semi metallic pads always have a deposit on them.

http://www.galferusa.com/html/ts-maint-tips.html

Well, if the brake pad manufacturer recomends it, then I tend to think that it's a good idea. Read it, then come back and tell me I'm wrong.

This:

■Brake pads should be bedded in to clean rotors (see rotor maintenance). Start with slow stops ranging from 10-15 mph and increasing in blocks of 10 mph until about 40-50 mph. Repeat this step 2-3 times and resume casual riding. Bedding in brake pads helps prevent glazing and helps to mate the pads to the rotor surface.

Directs you to this:

■All brake rotors tend to build up brake pad compound material over time. Pad build embeds itself into the disc and can retain heat, which promotes disc warping. To prevent this from happening, and to ensure your pads always brake on good and clean rotor surface, we recommend getting your discs bead blasted at least once a year. If you are racing or use the bike for heavy sport use, you may need to do this more times during the year. Call us; we can help with this procedure.

Maybe thats why your rotors are full of glaze.


Edit to add: For the best performance out of any brake system, regardless of what material is used, you should always seat new pads onto a new surface. Sure, you can go without doing it, but is it the best way. No. Will it take longer for the brake pad to seat, and not give you the best performance out of your brake pads, yup.

 

[Motech]

Uneven pad wear like that, where one pad wears faster than the other, is a sure sign of a binding caliper. Three causes most common on a floating caliper setup like yours:

1. Caliper slides dry or tweaked
2. Piston(s) binding in bores, not fully retracting when lever released
3. Excessive hydraulic pressure caused by incorrect lever adjustment or too much fluid in reservoir, which will cause piston seizure like #2

I suspect #1 is your problem, but I'd redo the front brakes entirely:

• Dismantle and clean out the piston bores.
• Totally service the caliper hardware paying close attention to the sliders for smooth, unrestricted movement.
• Replace the disc if it's scored or too thin, or resurface it if it's OK.
• New pads.
• Flush the fluid with DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 making sure to not overfill it when you're done.

 

[Burning1]

What Motech said.

I'd also be very curious what pads you were running. My experience with greens is that they work well, but don't last very long. I literally wore a set out (most of the material gone) in a single day at the track.

 

[afm199]

http://www.galferusa.com/html/ts-maint-tips.html

Well, if the brake pad manufacturer recomends it, then I tend to think that it's a good idea. Read it, then come back and tell me I'm wrong.

This:


Directs you to this:


Maybe thats why your rotors are full of glaze.


Edit to add: For the best performance out of any brake system, regardless of what material is used, you should always seat new pads onto a new surface. Sure, you can go without doing it, but is it the best way. No. Will it take longer for the brake pad to seat, and not give you the best performance out of your brake pads, yup.

No, that's what Galfer says. However, to tell the truth, sintered pads work by depositing material and organic by taking material off. THAT IS WHY YOU CLEAN ROTORS when you switch to organic.

And it is not "glaze". Rotors don't glaze, they get material deposited on them. Last, it takes one lap to seat most brake pads on the track.

 

[msethhunter]

No, that's what Galfer says. However, to tell the truth, sintered pads work by depositing material and organic by taking material off. THAT IS WHY YOU CLEAN ROTORS when you switch to organic.

And it is not "glaze". Rotors don't glaze, they get material deposited on them. Last, it takes one lap to seat most brake pads on the track.

There is just no middle ground with you. It's either your opnion, or the person you are talking with is wrong. And unless the person uses the exact verbage that you like, they are wrong. No slang/porr mans speak allowed.

Tell me again what qualifications you have other than building engines/wrenching in your garage?

P.S. I'm pretty sure what you just posted is exactly what I linked to. Unless I am way off and not reading it right. And I'd trust what the manufacturer has to say over some garage mechanic. Especially since I spent 9 years as a wrench, and learned to follow direction to get the most out of what I was repairing/maintaining. But, I'm sure you'll come up with something to refute why someone shouldn't follow directions. I'm waiting...........



It seems that posts in "The Garage" always end up in a dick measuring contest. Why is that?

 

[afm199]

There is just no middle ground with you. It's either your opnion, or the person you are talking with is wrong. And unless the person uses the exact verbage that you like, they are wrong. No slang/porr mans speak allowed.

Tell me again what qualifications you have other than building engines/wrenching in your garage?

P.S. I'm pretty sure what you just posted is exactly what I linked to. Unless I am way off and not reading it right. And I'd trust what the manufacturer has to say over some garage mechanic. Especially since I spent 9 years as a wrench, and learned to follow direction to get the most out of what I was repairing/maintaining. But, I'm sure you'll come up with something to refute why someone shouldn't follow directions. I'm waiting...........



It seems that posts in "The Garage" always end up in a dick measuring contest. Why is that?

Actually your first post was full of inaccuracy. "Bead blast them or they will work like crap." Wrong. I believe Galfer suggests this once a year, not every time you change pads. Also walnut is far less abrasive than glass beads and still removes material.

I have no qualifications to be a mech at all. Ignore everything I say.

By the way, are your nine years as a wrench on cars or bikes?

I post up on things I know about. Anyone who bead blast rotors every time they change pads is an idiot. I don't know shit about Harleys and don't offer opinions about them. Ditto V stars, and Tuonos and a lot of other bikes. I am fairly knowledgable about Sv's. I try to post up on things I know about.

Out of curiosity, how many bikes have you owned, worked on and changed brakes on? Roughly.

The Dunlop website also suggests putting 36-42 psi in their tires. Do you do this?

 

[msethhunter]

Actually your first post was full of inaccuracy. "Bead blast them or they will work like crap." Wrong. I believe Galfer suggests this once a year, not every time you change pads. Also walnut is far less abrasive than glass beads and still removes material.

I have no qualifications to be a mech at all. Ignore everything I say.

By the way, are your nine years as a wrench on cars or bikes?

Out of curiosity, how many bikes have you owned, worked on and changed brakes on? Roughly.

The Dunlop website also suggests putting 36-42 psi in their tires. Do you do this?

Just shows you didn't read what Galfer says about their product. The recomend it everytime you replace them, as it reads in what I quoted from Galfer. Seat them in on a clean surface for eaisest seating and most effective braking. Simple as that. And then yes, once a year as well.

My quals come from turning wrenches on cars to make a living, turning wrenches on Drag cars to help my brother, and turning wrenches on bikes for fun and to help out friends, which, makes me more qualified to speak up than it does you.

Here is the race car I used to wrench on before it was sold for the funds to build a new one. It still holds the MPH and ET records for it's class in the PSCA.

http://www.pscaracing.com/driverprofiles/Outlawnuke.html


The car was built on a garage floor, and holds records against ex-prostock cars. Here is a video clip from "The Spring Break Super Show."


youtu.be/y3gSaUQot98

Edit to add: Since you went back and added, I'll respond.

I have owned 7 bikes, but what does that matter? I have worked on just about every brand thats mainstream.

No, I don't run those pressures. I run about 54 front, and 62 rear. That should make your head spin right off right there. On a serious note, I am happy with my bike at about 29-30 front and about 30-31 rear. Seems to fit my riding style, and my tires show no abnormal wear at those pressures.

 

[afm199]

Got it, no experience with moto brakes but you can read. Ok. Worked on any bikes?

I'll repeat what I said. Anyone who gets their rotors bead blasted every time they change pads is an idiot. I'll use some scotchbrite on them when changing pads. I might bead blast once every couple years, maybe not. None of my track bikes show any degradation with unblasted rotors and changing pads two or three times a year.

 

[msethhunter]

Got it, no experience with moto brakes but you can read. Ok. Worked on any bikes?

I'll repeat what I said. Anyone who gets their rotors bead blasted every time they change pads is an idiot. I'll use some scotchbrite on them when changing pads. I might bead blast once every couple years, maybe not. None of my track bikes show any degradation with unblasted rotors and changing pads two or three times a year.

And where does it say I have no experince with moto brakes. Do you even have a clue as to what I have done to bikes? How about what kind of brakes are on the race car? They are the same as HH pads (Sintered Ceramic ), and yes, we bead blast them everytime we replace the pads. Try getting 3200lbs slowed from 215mph without getting hard spots/hot spots. If it does that to a race car when we don't bead blast, but doesn't when we do, we must be doing something right. The only difference is we are hauling a lot more weight from much higher speeds, so it will show if we have done something wrong or skipped steps much more quickly than on a bike. It may be working for you not to clean up your rotors, and thats fine. But if it's recomended, then why not do it? Brakes is not something I tend to develop my own opnions about. They are the single most important part of anything that travels at the speeds a motorcycle does.

 

[Motech]

 

[Burning1]

msethhunter,

Ernie has been racing motorcycles and working as a motrcycle instructor. He's been at it long enough to have changed his pads many many many times. He knows how his approach to maintenance will affect brake performance and parts life.

He's also a great guy, always has a friendly smile, and very helpful on-track. Best to relax and make friends with the dude.

FWIW, pad materials and rotor design is one place where where motorcycles and cars do tend to differ, in my opinion.

 

[Burning1]

Amazing car BTW, and nice driving.

Been thinking I should take my sport touring bike to the drag strip sometime - would like to see what kinds of times it could put down, and I'm sure it would help with my race starts.

 

[afm199]

And where does it say I have no experince with moto brakes. Do you even have a clue as to what I have done to bikes? How about what kind of brakes are on the race car? They are the same as HH pads (Sintered Ceramic ), and yes, we bead blast them everytime we replace the pads. Try getting 3200lbs slowed from 215mph without getting hard spots/hot spots. If it does that to a race car when we don't bead blast, but doesn't when we do, we must be doing something right. The only difference is we are hauling a lot more weight from much higher speeds, so it will show if we have done something wrong or skipped steps much more quickly than on a bike. It may be working for you not to clean up your rotors, and thats fine. But if it's recomended, then why not do it? Brakes is not something I tend to develop my own opnions about. They are the single most important part of anything that travels at the speeds a motorcycle does.

I am sure you have MUCH more info in your mind about cars than I do. I am sure you can tell me things about squish, rod stretch and combustion chamber design on small block chevies I never dreamed of.

I don't know if you have worked on bikes. But in this thread the OP is riding a small street bike he was worn out the pads on. He needs to replace them with similar pads. It probably would not hurt to blast the rotors, but I have seen plenty of 70k rotors that have never been bead blasted and work well. And his rotors are probably shot anyway.

I asked the tire pressure question for a reason. NOBODY who knows anything about bikes runs recommended pressures. Why? They are liability pressures designed to do the least damage. Ditto bead blasting and bedding. Nice ideas. Might improve performance 2% maybe, but the manufacturer basically wants to cover all the bases so they don't get sued.

And by the way, there are high end pads out there the manufacturer says "remove from box and install, no bedding needed."

In an ideal world bead blasting is nice, in a practical street bike way, I'd suggest braided lines, fresh brake fluid, cleaning calipers and good pads WAY before I would suggest bead blasting.

 

[msethhunter]

msethhunter,

Ernie has been racing motorcycles and working as a motrcycle instructor. He's been at it long enough to have changed his pads many many many times. He knows how his approach to maintenance will affect brake performance and parts life.

He's also a great guy, always has a friendly smile, and very helpful on-track. Best to relax and make friends with the dude.

FWIW, pad materials and rotor design is one place where where motorcycles and cars do tend to differ, in my opinion.

I think you miss the point of my posts. With some people, like I said, it turns into a dick measuring contest, and "if your's ins't as big as mine, your stupid and wrong, so go home." I could care less what the man does. I also speak from personal experince. I wasn't the one who started flinging shit around the room when someone pointed out what the brake pad manufacturer recomends, calling them an idiot, was I?

As for your assumption of rotor and pad desgin, on a stock everyday run of the mill car, yes, they vary greatly. But on a purpose built car such as the one I have worked on, and help build, I can tell you the only difference is in the floating rotor of a MC. Otherwise, everything else is the same. They all take rotational energy and turn that into heat.