Bike SLiders > opinions needed please

[hitjohn]

Hi Folks,

I am going to be machining bike sliders after work in my garage for sale. the sliders i make will be designed to be strong, work well "when needed" and made of durable materials and fasteners.

I will also be making custom sliders and slider spacers for people who want a special one in a certain part of their bike or need to space their sliders a bit further out. i will be using aluminum for spacer material in 1/2 - 1 " as well as sliders of Delrin made from 1.5 -1.75 ".

Basically I got tired of hearing people talk about how they have to buy a pair of sliders when all they needed to get their bike back on the track was one. Its happened to me a few times now.

Can you help me by telling me if you would run the following on your bike on the street or track:

- swingarm slider / stand knobs

- fork sliders

- exhaust sliders

- bar end sliders

Also, in terms of appearance, do you prefer tapered cones for sliders or would you rather have the slider thicker walled for more "slideability"?

As for exhaust sliders, would the ability to save a few hundred dollars on your bike be worth having a delrin / aluminum knob sitting at the exhaust mouting bolt?

I have gotten some good feedback from national forums but want to get local now, i know a lot of you go to the track as well as streetride year round.

How important is it to you that you can just purchase one side in a pair of sliders as opposed ot having to buy a new set after an accident?

I have materials on order already and will be machining within 2 weeks time. I just want to get some feedback and kind of gauge which slider would be good to make first.

Thanks for any input you may have!

John

 

[nweaver]

a: Don't expect a lot of money in this niche: there are already so many makers on the market.

b: Bar-end sliders seem very silly. Whats wrong with the bar-ends themselves: if they bend, they were going to bend anyway, and "sliders" are not any cheaper than just plain old bar-end weights.

c: Swingarm spool mount points are not very tought, I wouldn't WANT anything sticking out more than just the spools for a rearstand, as anything more significant than an opps-on-side drop would just rip them off and probably cause MORE damage.

d: Likewise, exhaust sliders. THe amount a slider would have needed to stick out on the SV to prevent the previous owner from scraping upt he exhaust would be huge, and there would be no real good place to mount them anyway.

Instead, what might be good for exhaust is a high-temperature plastic circle which goes over the part where the can starts, as that seems to be the point which will hit the ground in a tipover.

 

[PASTAPWR]

Good luck to you, you have some stiff competition out there.

I have not tested my sliders, but input I have from what I have read is that frame, along with fork, rear axle, and bar end sliders seems to give the best protection.

 

[wsmc831]

I have bar end, swingarm and frame currently. Due to the optimal frame position for them hitting my knee, I have mounted them differently, and they don't quite make it past the radiator.

I have tested the bar end sliders and swingarm sliders and they worked great, much better than normal bar end weights or generic spools.

I would like to see some exhaust sliders currently showing up on SM bikes actually.



course, they're all really only going to work in low speed tip overs....

good luck, sounds like a fun project.

 

[hitjohn]

a: Don't expect a lot of money in this niche: there are already so many makers on the market.

- point taken, this will be done more for hobby purposes. im keepin the day job at the desk: ) my wife already warned me about this. :teeth

b: Bar-end sliders seem very silly. Whats wrong with the bar-ends themselves: if they bend, they were going to bend anyway, and "sliders" are not any cheaper than just plain old bar-end weights.

- the idea behind a bar end slider is to aid in a bikes ability to slide during an accident and not catch traction with metal parts. for example, in an accident and you have a bar end slider made of delrin you have better odds of not bending your handlebar as opposed to using standard bar end weights made of metal. metal does not slide as well. of course if you need the weights on the handlebars it would be best to leave them as opposed to getting numb digits. on the flip side a crash with a metal bar end can bend a handlebar thereby putting a dent into a tank etc...

c: Swingarm spool mount points are not very tought, I wouldn't WANT anything sticking out more than just the spools for a rearstand, as anything more significant than an opps-on-side drop would just rip them off and probably cause MORE damage.

- Understood, on some bikes like Kawasaki's the swingarm spool mount holes are pretty beefy. I can see where there is a potential for the mount to get ripped off the swingarm so i'll take into consideration the type of fastener used. Grade 8 bolts would likely break the mount right off. Excellent points.

d: Likewise, exhaust sliders. THe amount a slider would have needed to stick out on the SV to prevent the previous owner from scraping upt he exhaust would be huge, and there would be no real good place to mount them anyway.

Instead, what might be good for exhaust is a high-temperature plastic circle which goes over the part where the can starts, as that seems to be the point which will hit the ground in a tipover.

- I agree with you, the idea of a circle slider around the exhaust would be great. That is a fantastic idea. I agree that it could be ridiculous putting a slider on the exhaust area depending on the type of bike you have.

I think that exhaust sliders , as unappealing as they may be just might be worth it when you go to the track. i can see it more for track duty as opposed to street duty.

For any slider to be worthwhile on any bike the things to take into acocunt are fastener strength so as not to compromise frame and structure of the bike or its parts, the functionality depending on bike shape and design and then the appearance. The idea behind a slider is to minimize damage and not prevent it. I will tie all this into what i make and see what I can do.

This is great feedback and I thiank you for your time and input. Im going to take this info and move with it. I hope to have practical, decent looking parts soon to show for it.

Thanks!

John

 

[rritterson]

my two cents:

the way to make money in this market is not in making new places to put the sliders, it's in making the shape and material of the slider more effective through good engineering.

For example, most sliders are simply hollow cylinders. That's a non-optimal profile for limiting friction when it makes contact with the ground. Some make mushroom shaped sliders that I think would be more effective.

What if you could put a bearing in the end and put in a rolling surface instead of a sliding surface. Would that lessen the chance of the slider digging and the bike flipping?

In all cases, the slider should bend long before the bolt and/or mount does. I'd rather have more scrapes on my bodywork than a bent frame mount.

The list goes on. Some of those ideas are probably patentable, if you can find a good solution. That will protect and ensure your income for far longer.

 

[hitjohn]

I have bar end, swingarm and frame currently. Due to the optimal frame position for them hitting my knee, I have mounted them differently, and they don't quite make it past the radiator.

I have tested the bar end sliders and swingarm sliders and they worked great, much better than normal bar end weights or generic spools.

I would like to see some exhaust sliders currently showing up on SM bikes actually.



course, they're all really only going to work in low speed tip overs....

good luck, sounds like a fun project.

funny you mention the sm bikes, i saw one the other day using skateboared wheels as sliders. they had a nice design on the face of the wheel: )

as for the sliders hitting knees, i had a LP set on my TLR and i fondly remember getting these mean charlie horses from the sliders, they always left a mark.

thanks!

john

 

[nweaver]

For bar-end sliders, if your goal is low friction, how about a Delrin plate/cap for existing bar ends, rather than as a replacement for the bar-ends?

You use a slightly longer screw, and have a delrin cap OVER the bar end weight. I would NOT be willing to give up the mass on the bar ends, as the anti-vibration properties are significant.

As for exhaust sliders, I'd say the exact opposite: here's why.

A huge part of the savings of sliders is cosmetic damage in the 4 MPH tipover, which can still be enough to cause real damage without a frame slider.

In this role, an exhaust cap to take the scuffing would be a BIG savings.

 

[hitjohn]

my two cents:

the way to make money in this market is not in making new places to put the sliders, it's in making the shape and material of the slider more effective through good engineering.

For example, most sliders are simply hollow cylinders. That's a non-optimal profile for limiting friction when it makes contact with the ground. Some make mushroom shaped sliders that I think would be more effective.

What if you could put a bearing in the end and put in a rolling surface instead of a sliding surface. Would that lessen the chance of the slider digging and the bike flipping?

In all cases, the slider should bend long before the bolt and/or mount does. I'd rather have more scrapes on my bodywork than a bent frame mount.

The list goes on. Some of those ideas are probably patentable, if you can find a good solution. That will protect and ensure your income for far longer.

i thought of the mushroom shape as well as the rolling slider. the mushroom shape would definitely be doable and allow for more sliding material. to keep fastening simple there would still be a hole in the middle.

the bearing idea is excellent but definitely drives the cost up as well, being exposed to the environment you would need a decent quality bearing to keep from rust and corrosion.

I like the bearing idea a lot and i think its real unique. i thnk for it to work as planned the bike would need to slide almost perfectly level with the face of the spinning slider or the second it touches down at a stronger angle it'll wear the slider and cause it to remain in that position til it stops sliding.

check out what i found on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/8670...hZ009QQitemZ2488869508QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

thanks for the great advice and input!

john

 

[Hoologan]

Check this out. I saw something like this in one of the euro sportbike mags, and immediately wondered why i didn't think of it. The one I saw had a stainless backplate with replaceable carbon fiber over it. This is similar though.

http://www.fastbikebits.com/acatalog/carbon_bits.html

 

[hitjohn]

sh**! it didnt work, here it is, lighted frame sliders :teeth :teeth

 

[hitjohn]

crud, boss calling: ( got to do some work now, please keep the good tips coming, i appreaciate it!

john

 

[V4]

Problem with skateboard wheels used as sliders is because they are made for grip rather than to slide, it sometimes catches on the tarmac and cause the bike to flip....

also, due to vibrations using just a rod without spacers, the vibrations inside can cause wear inside/out damaging the axle...

sliders should just slide so a slider made out of delrim rather than urethane is a better option...

here's a picture of the forks of my supermoto what happens without axle sliders...

imagine if they what would happen if they were Ohlin/Showa forks....

 

[V4]

now for those skeptics, there are axle block sliders coming into the market for Supermotos and eventually sprotbiles and one used for an Aprilia SVX 450 supermoto saved the life of the swingarm....

here's the pic of the axle block slider...I'll show the pics of a crashed SXV later...:wow

 

[V4]

here's one for the KTMs:cool

 

[V4]

With the axle block sliders, you can use a rear stand and still remove the wheel and still save your swingarm when needed...

 

[Hoologan]

V4, If you were to pull the axle, how would the axle block slider stay in place? It looks like it's part of the chain adjuster...

 

[NeverSayDie]

A small child in China is going to undercut your production costs.

Bar end sliders aren't too useful, but the other three you listed are a definite must if you care about your moto.

 

[hitjohn]

hey folks, thanks for the tips and info. i had no idea such sliders existed for SM bikes. amazing!

as for getting my business trampled on by a child overseas its a risk no doubt. the advantage is i will manage it all myself and have parts for people when needed.

there will be no need to go through a local shop who will order from ABC company in China and see when Child XYZ will be able to make a part and send it to the US >factor in shipping time and cost to the shop you ordered from > have them tack on their share of profit > and then have you go pick it up.

Man, what a pain that is.

I'll just make the slider you need and ship the damn thing myself. the sliders wont be in any fancy packaging but it will show up, serve its purpose and is made locally: )

thanks guys, really appreciate the info you have given!

John

 

[hitjohn]

here are some developments over the weekend. i had some time to machine a bit between work and diving: )

6061 / delrin, fully sleeved to the bolt head and STRONG w/ all needed hardware.

more parts coming soon. just need more time.

john