Bike/seat height and perceived weight

[Gary856]

I rode a ’16 Tiger 800 XR for a day last weekend. Compared to full-sized KTMs/GS/Multistrada the Tiger looked small, and the seat was low. At 6’ with 32” inseam, it was refreshing and comfortable to be on a bike I could not only flat-foot, but with a decent bend in my knees. Due to the lower bike and seat height, parking and pushing the Tiger on uneven ground felt easier. I was surprised by 2 things after the ride:

- Per my bathroom scale, the Tiger weighed 504 lbs (full tank, with full Givi top-side luggage racks but no luggage), about even with my ’13 Multistrada at 501 lbs. Due to its lower height, the Tiger felt easier and lighter to push.

- The owner told me the Tiger had a lower Triumph accessory seat installed.

Although I’m used to taller seat height and generally didn’t think I needed lower seat height (almost as a matter of pride), now I see its advantages. The lower seat made the bike felt more normal-human-sized - easier to mount/dismount, easier to park and push, and in this case without compromising much on leg room and comfort for a multi-hour ride.


BTW, it took a couple of hours for me to warm up to the Tiger, but now I’m in love! I thought the bike was meh at first - the triple’s low end was soft, the lack of engine braking when transitioning into turns felt awkward, and the suspension felt vague. After riding it longer, though, the flexibility of the engine amazed me; in lower gears it was usable from less than 2,000 rpm all the way to 10,000 rpm! It revved freely, felt linear, unstressed and thrilling at high rpm. And, the rougher the road, the better the suspension felt. Compared to the twins I normally ride and prefer, the Tiger felt weird in a nice way; it’s like a high-revving sportbike that’s comfortable and at home on goat roads.

 

[mrmarklin]

Low seats are a big part of Harley popularity. There’s even a model called the Low Rider. :laughing

These are heavy machines, but are easy to ride due to low COG and the ability to put both feet on the ground at stoplights and in parking lots. :thumbup

 

[OldMadBrit]

Im intrigued by the Tiger 800 as well. At 5' 9" and a 30" inseam, I'm frustrated with the slow creep to ever higher seats. Most of the ADV bikes are way too tall for me. My old Caponord was one of the few that offered a low seat option.

 

[Dennis D.]

The Triumph triples are truly flexible engines, both my Street and Speed are that way, and neither requires premium gas. Neither my Capo 1200 or SD1290 are happy below about 4500 rpm where as the T's will chug right along at 2500 rpm with out complaint. Makes commuting a lot easier since we can't lane split in Oregon. Kinda pissed that Triumph isn't bringing in the Tiger Sport to North America.

 

[solarae]

The average height of an American woman is 5'4". Try finding anything but a "beginner bike" or a cruiser (not for me) Just sucks.

 

[moto-rama]

Im intrigued by the Tiger 800 as well. At 5' 9" and a 30" inseam, I'm frustrated with the slow creep to ever higher seats. Most of the ADV bikes are way too tall for me. My old Caponord was one of the few that offered a low seat option.

Oddly enough, being short of leg myself, I am split as to whether I like tall bikes or short ones.

Tall bikes have way better vision-ahead, usually way more ground clearance, fork travel and have a nice feel on the highway.
But then at stops, or parking and stuff like that, tall bikes are a pain for shorter riders.

The ideal bike would have a way to lift the suspension on the fly, then squat down in places you want to get your feet down.

The combination that is unnerving is tall and heavy up top, like my FJR. Having ridden it for a few years now, I am used to planning ahead and choosing my stops, parking etc based on my reach, but I had 2 BMWs that were tall, but never felt like they'd tip over or anything. All the weight was down low, and both were balanced nicely.
I did look like an idiot on my GS, though, with it's 35 inch seat height. At some stops, I'd slip it in to 1st gear, pull in the clutch, then slide my ass off to the left while holding the rear brake with my tippytoe. Always good for a buttpucker on Sacramento Street or Mason....I could just barely get my left toe down, yikes.

 

[RRrider]

Being similarly height challenged, I find I can survive on larger bikes, because I have had to learn, and once in motion it doesn't matter, but when you have to stop, park, move the bike around, it is ***so*** much better being on a small bike - so much more confidence inspiring. And that's just in normal life. If you get injured, sprained ankle for example or tweaked knee...all those things that just sort of happen to bodies...then having to fight a larger bike really sucks.

That said, even on a tall GS, or an even taller dirt bike, once in motion, it doesn't matter. One can learn to make it work. just would prefer not to have to.

 

[moto-rama]

Just recalling my 916, that had a fairly high seat height.

Anyone taller than about 5'8" would be cramped on that bike.

The ideal rider for it would have a rubberized neck, retractable legs, and super long arms. Kind of like a baboon with bionic legs!

 

[kurth83]

Yeah I am short too, and ride the tallest seat I can manage (31" typically), I can see and be seen in traffic.

I am thinking of giving up one more inch in the next go-around though, which likely means lowered suspension on an F750GS.

That would get me from tip-toes, to balls of my feet. Struggling in parking lots and fearing stopping with even small holes under my feet is making me think this would be worth it.

 

[moto-rama]

The average height of an American woman is 5'4". Try finding anything but a "beginner bike" or a cruiser (not for me) Just sucks.

My exwife and daughter both tower over me, at 6 ft and 6'1"... and both can easily can flat foot a bike with. 36" seat height, but neither ride...

I was once told that I was just trying to improve the gene pool when I got married to someone who , in heels made me look like I was 3' 2".

That was my mom.

Cheer up, we'll always have Groms.

 

[FreeRyde]

Seat height not only has to do with confidence, it can vastly change the handling of a bike.

Take for example a vstrom 650... With the tall seat option it feels more like a super motard, tall, but requires a good bit of steering input and a good heave to get it off the side stand. Now a wee with a stock seat feels like a scooter. Has super nimble handling and feels 50lbs lighter.

Just depends what floats your boat.

For me, tall bikes are more fun to go hoon'n on, but are a pain as a daily driver.

 

[Gary856]

A couple of shots to show the optional low seat I was talking about. Man, I miss riding that bike already.

 

[ST Guy]

Wow. I had no idea that the average height for women was only 5 feet, 4 inches. And that the average man was only 5 feet 9 inches. I'm 6'1" and my wife is 5'10". I knew we are taller than average but I'm surprised it's by that much.

Given that much of the world is of similar height, I'm surprised that bike manufacturers don't make more bikes to accommodate more of the buying public.

 

[OldMadBrit]

A couple of shots to show the optional low seat I was talking about. Man, I miss riding that bike already.

Even more intrigued now :thumbup

 

[rodr]

That Tiger looks nice!

I'm hoping to pick up a CB500X this weekend, having previously had a Weestrom for 9 years. Similar style (faux adventure bikes) and on paper the CB is only half an inch lower, but feels like more and the difference is huge. The CB is 50+ pounds lighter and overall smaller and feels much more comfortable, maneuverable and a more natural fit.

 

[moto-rama]

A couple of shots to show the optional low seat I was talking about. Man, I miss riding that bike already.

You do know you're clouding my focus on "that next bike"....I was down to choosing between a R1250RS (If they ever ship any to Northern California) or a R1250R ....all the way down to running a spread sheet of options / prices, too.

Last year I had ridden an XRT and even though it felt awkward at slowspeeds or stopped, it was very capable, and even flickable at higher speeds on a local backroad. I was pretty much sold on one. Then my KTMDuke690 came along and I haven't stopped riding it long enough to resume my touring bike search.
All things considered, though, if I had enough leg I'd be climbing on a SuperDuke ....but alas.

I love luxury problems!

 

[Gary856]

I rented the Tiger 800 for a day from Riders-Share; it’s also on Twistedroad. The owner’s in north San Jose. If I had only ridden the Tiger during a typical demo ride – 20 minutes in a group around the block – I wouldn’t have been too excited. It’s not a halo bike that instantly puts you in awe. However, it was great to be able to ride it all over the Santa Cruz mountains for a whole day to really get to know it and explore its capabilities. I had an ’06 Speed Triple 1050 and I thought its engine was just so so, especially on very tight roads where the power ramped up/down abruptly around 3,500 rpm. I like the Tiger 800’s engine way better – linear, lively, unstressed, tremendously flexible and very usable in any condition – from the freeway to the tightest goat roads. I tend to short-shift my thumper and twins to reduce vibration, but with the revvy and smooth 800 triple I could stay in one gear much longer to take advantage of the full rev range. Even the first gear was pretty usable beyond just getting going - not too short, not too tall. Charging up a goat road with high rpm power was a pretty different type of thrill from the low-end torque of thumper/twins I’m more used to.

Disclaimer:
I have a tendency to be in love with the latest new-to-me bike :laughing, so take all this with a grain of salt. Only way to be sure is to ride one for yourself for a day.

 

[Toast]

When I was bike shopping I looked at the Strom 1000 ADV, it's a heavy-ish bike but it was so tall I couldn't get the damn thing off the side stand. The KTM 1190 weighs almost the same but I would have been able to ride the thing, especially with the lower seat and it felt much better.

 

[Gary856]

I demo-rode a V-Strom 1000 and don’t remember it feeling tall to me, but it was just around the block in a group, and I didn’t have to park it on uneven roadsides like I often do on backroads. The engine was peppy and revvy, and the handling was light. I liked it.

The KTM 1190”R” Adventure (the “R” is taller with 21/18 wheels) I rented for a day was tallish and a little harder to handle with muscle power when I had to park and position it on hillsides for photos. I was on the ball of my feet when stopped. Its long kickstand made it even harder to park where the left side of the ground was just slightly higher, as is often the case from road crown. I loved the 1190R (it felt awesome as soon as I got on it), but since I don’t ride off-road often and don’t need the extra ground clearance, the lower “non-R” version (with 19/17 wheels) could be a better choice for me to own.

 

[thePUNISHER]

- Per my bathroom scale, the Tiger weighed 504 lbs (full tank, with full Givi top-side luggage racks but no luggage), about even with my ’13 Multistrada at 501 lbs. Due to its lower height, the Tiger felt easier and lighter to push.

I think your bathroom scale might be off. I owned a '16 XRx for a while. If I remember right when I weighed mine at the local recycler it was around 575lbs with a full tank and empty luggage(trekker side cases & givi e55 top box). I don't think the panniers weigh more than about 25lbs.

It was a great bike though. I seemed to ride it faster than I did my street triple or my cbr, just an easy bike to ride & comfortable enough for all day rides. That 800cc triple is a GREAT motor! Oh and even the low seat has a low & high setting, you can raise the front or the back or both.