Big Four Standardizes on Electric Powertrain and Batteries

dittoalex

Too much lean angle...
Remember to tip your battery boy when you pull into STP for a fresh charge. 20 bitcoin should do it :2cents
 

kuksul08

Suh Dude
I am hopeful but skeptical. The battery has a huge impact on the performance and range of the bike. How do we know that the one you swap out will be the comparable to the one you had before?

Will the batteries all be tested every time they're swapped out? What about damage from an accident or tampering someone might have done that makes it faulty or dangerous in some way? Will the batteries be inspected thoroughly when you drop it off? That requires more people working at "transfer stations" to aid in the process and increases cost.

Then there's the security aspect. They will need to have a stock of batteries ready to go at each station and these will be prime for theft. The honor system might work in some areas, but in others it won't and many thousand dollar battery banks will go missing.

I still think some kind of capacitor-based system or new chemistry that allows fast charging is an ideal option.
 

sjuels

OldMan
I am hopeful but skeptical. The battery has a huge impact on the performance and range of the bike. How do we know that the one you swap out will be the comparable to the one you had before?

Will the batteries all be tested every time they're swapped out? What about damage from an accident or tampering someone might have done that makes it faulty or dangerous in some way? Will the batteries be inspected thoroughly when you drop it off? That requires more people working at "transfer stations" to aid in the process and increases cost.

Then there's the security aspect. They will need to have a stock of batteries ready to go at each station and these will be prime for theft. The honor system might work in some areas, but in others it won't and many thousand dollar battery banks will go missing.

I still think some kind of capacitor-based system or new chemistry that allows fast charging is an ideal option.

All very valid points.
Transactional security can be handled by inserting a battery from the bike into the transfer machine, which will verify identity and state of the battery, link to your account, and push out a new, freshly charged battery.

IMHO the hard part is the temperature management of the battery pack, and if the standard does not include this, then I doubt that it will have much impact.

But, I am hopeful.

/Soren
 

Killroy1999

Well-known member
While not for motos, Tesla and a startup called Better Placed tried battery Swap, both projects were shut down.

Tesla demonstrated that automated swaps could be done in less than the time to fill a tank of fuel and invited select customers to try it. Tesla said that customers were not crazy for it. At the time Supercharger V1 was already out and they were upgrading to V2. Now Supercharger V3 can charge a Model 3 at ~1000 MPH (of range) in the best scenario, so battery swap may be... meh.

You can battery swap a Zero FX, yet to my knowledge, it is rare for owners to actually use this feature and they sell a fixed battery version
 

Schnellbandit

I see 4 lights!
I am hopeful but skeptical. The battery has a huge impact on the performance and range of the bike. How do we know that the one you swap out will be the comparable to the one you had before?

The same way you know if the gas you get is any good, the fuel pump is accurate or the propane cylinder is really full. Expect the motorcycle to have some gauge that tells you the state of charge for the battery.

Will the batteries all be tested every time they're swapped out?

Good chargers already do this. Even lowly charges for drills and other power tools already do this.


What about damage from an accident or tampering someone might have done that makes it faulty or dangerous in some way?

There should be records for each battery since you'll pay for the swap, tracking down individuals who had access to the battery should be doable. Right now if someone puts dissolved glue in the gas station tank, how would you know until your engine goes kaplunk?

Will the batteries be inspected thoroughly when you drop it off?

Automation can do that. Go-no go battery chargers already exist. A physically damaged battery will not go into the charger and a chemically damaged battery will not charge.

That requires more people working at "transfer stations" to aid in the process and increases cost.

I doubt more people than run a gas station. No doubt the swap service would require you to put a good serviceable battery into a charger station, it checks the batttery in seconds and then lets you open the slot for the freshly charged battery that has an indicator right on it telling you the capacity etc.

Then there's the security aspect. They will need to have a stock of batteries ready to go at each station and these will be prime for theft.

If the batteries are standard then that isn't difficult. Bikes that use more energy might use more than a single battery or each bike will have range and performance according to it's design. The same thing happens now, small gas tank, less range. The engine doesn't know how big your gas tank is but the EV bike can know the available charge of the battery. People already steal gas. Stealing batteries might be harder with electronic tracking. I doubt you'd get far with stolen batteries.


The honor system might work in some areas, but in others it won't and many thousand dollar battery banks will go missing.

If the batteries are swappable, what will anyone do with a lot of batteries since getting a freshly charged one is easier than paying a theif for a stolen one that alerts service personnel the instant you try to exchange it.

I still think some kind of capacitor-based system or new chemistry that allows fast charging is an ideal option.

In the end, all these things are already addressed in battery and charger technology today. Sure, there will always be thieves but would you buy a stolen battery when it costs a couple bucks for a freshly charged one where you have recourse if it doesn't work? I doubt some thief is going to sell a stolen battery for less than you can swap one out. Plus, the next time you try to exchange the swappable battery guess who goes to jail?
 

kuksul08

Suh Dude
... Plus, the next time you try to exchange the swappable battery guess who goes to jail?

No one, because nothing is illegal in CA anymore. You can walk down the street with a bag of meth and not go to jail.

But anyway, the battery swap concept is vastly different than the way we fill up our cars now. The whole underground fuel tank is controlled by the station owner. The gas deliveries are regulated, and the public doesn't mess with that. All we do is pay and squirt it into our tanks. In 2 states you can't even do that part.

I still don't buy it. I am all for the standardization of the battery tech, sizing, connectors, etc. That makes it cheaper for everyone. But the battery swap thing leaves me with more questions than answers.
 

Schnellbandit

I see 4 lights!
No one, because nothing is illegal in CA anymore. You can walk down the street with a bag of meth and not go to jail.

But anyway, the battery swap concept is vastly different than the way we fill up our cars now. The whole underground fuel tank is controlled by the station owner. The gas deliveries are regulated, and the public doesn't mess with that. All we do is pay and squirt it into our tanks. In 2 states you can't even do that part.

I still don't buy it. I am all for the standardization of the battery tech, sizing, connectors, etc. That makes it cheaper for everyone. But the battery swap thing leaves me with more questions than answers.

True words there.

I reconsidered your posts and.mine and you have something there. While lots of things run on batteries and the charges are pretty good at maintaining them, standardization has eluded most industries where batteries are used, greed seems to keep innovation down.

I have a slew of batteries for power tools but they only work in one brand of tool regardless that the shape of the battery is pretty much similiar.

While electric can be compared to fuel as in gasoline, the containers cannot and even car have different fuel tanks and fuel management systems.

Honda isn't going to go along with limiting it's tech to the lowest common denominator (Yamaha just as example) when it can go alone and with it's huge sales advantage make it's tech unusable by the other 3. With the battery system being so a part of performance they wouldn't want to see their bikes running batteries that are also used by Yamaha, it just isn't the same as gasoline.

:thumbup
 
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