Back road pace - position and bike type

[Gary856]

At a highly spirited back road pace in the mountains I generally think:

1. It’s easier to follow than to lead. Less pressure to keep pace or drop back than to set the pace, and you can assess the skills of the guy in front of you.

2. An upright bike w/ more suspension travel is easier than a sportbike to handle tight turns and dirt/gravel/rough pavement.

So, if I’m barely able to keeping pace on my upright bikes behind a sportbike rider, I generally feel the lead sportbike rider has more skills than me. Put it another way, just because someone can catch up doesn’t mean he’s more skilled.

Do you find this to be true?

 

[GPzPop]

Red mist will get you!

 

[HadesOmega]

My pace is dictated by how well I can see in front of me, if it's blind I take it easy and stay in the middle of the lane. I pie the corners as in I don't commit till I can see ahead of me. Riding backroad twisties is not like the racetrack you're gambling if you ride 100%. And following seems easier for me, it gives me a more peace of mine that I have a buffer/shield in front of me =P

 

[budman]

At a highly spirited back road pace in the mountains I generally think:

1. It’s easier to lead. Better for me to see everything, run my pace and if someone want to go faster I let them by. Adjusted

2. An upright bike w/ more suspension travel is easier than a sportbike to handle tight turns and dirt/gravel/rough pavement. Agreed and more comfortable for an old man with a knee replacement.

So, if I’m barely able to keeping pace on my upright bikes behind a sportbike rider, I generally feel the lead sportbike rider has more skills than me. Put it another way, just because someone can catch up doesn’t mean he’s more skilled.

Do you find this to be true?

Answered in the quote. On the last point I don't always equate it to skill. It might be comfort factor and how much risk you are willing to take and the last part... yeah. I think that is what I said. :laughing

 

[WWWobble]

Somebody on this board had in his signature line something like...

Fast at a racetrack is a measure of skill

Fast on the road is a matter of nerve.

When I think of the most "skilled" street riders I ride with, they all have an excellent ability to "read the road" and run a pace that's consistent with whatever hazards are out there. Seldom are they "taken by surprise."

But, they are not the fastest street riders. I think they are well skilled, and have the most "street smarts." A few used to road race, and they know the race pace is NOT for the street.

 

[edzx6]

I have had a couple good friends who in my opinion rode too fast on the street. Both of these guys raced and ran at the front when they raced in the 80's.

One of them is dead. Street accident, I didn't witness this accident but I am sure he was going too fast. He always was and why wouldn't he have been on this day. The other one slowed down after that but is still a brisk rider.

The street is not a racetrack. Someone on here has the tagline "a trackday is not a raceday". That is true, it is even more relevant to the street setting. To be fast on the street takes "balls" Stupidity" call it whatever you want, but it is willing to ride above the boundaries of control and risk.

On a track you know everyone is at least headed in the same direction when they start. I am old enough to not judge people by how fast they go on the street. Maybe they are more talented than Vale and Marquez or maybe they are just lucky. Not my place to judge how someone rides. I see guys blitzing through traffic every morning and I move over and let them speed on by. I am not comfortable going over 35 between cars. If you are comfortable at 50 to 60, good for you.

I do know that at 55 years old, I have seen a lot of guys laying on the ground and have attended a couple funerals. If you go fast on the street, be aware you are taking chances and I hope you don't outride your skill or luck level.

Be safe out there everyone.

 

[Honey Badger]

Per #1, I would MUCH rather be in the lead. I can judge my own pace, line, and level of risk I'm willing (or not) to take.

Per #2, I would agree, a more upright bike is more comfortable. Ideally, the "sport" bikes as opposed to supersports are the sweet spot for me - yet to own one, but for a street only, twisties type of bike, that would be my go to.

Per #3, someone's ability to catch up or leave me might have to do with skill, but there's also a solid chance it has more to do with their risk acceptance level varying widely from mine. What I could do and what I will do are dramatically different at this point in my riding career.

 

[Slow Goat]

What's the hurry?

Depends a lot on your familiarity with the road, I think. Speed is usually capped by the sightlines available and road condition.

I find that running at about 75% puts me in "the groove" where I can flow with the turns without heavy throttle and braking inputs.

We have such great twisties to ride on! Moderate your pace just a bit, have more control and enjoy the ride more. :ride

Like Ed, my Red Mist/Ego days are long passed and the only person I have to please is myself.

Riding with others? A frank pre-ride discussion about pace is crucial to a safe, fun ride.

 

[Gary856]

Safety is paramount but who hasn’t engaged in a little competition with a stranger on the back roads? For the sake of this discussion let’s assume no one is reckless nor exceeds his skill level. I’m just asking how you feel position (front or back) and bike type affect your pace due to comfort level and safety margin. Somehow I hate having a stranger riding on my tail. I get overly concerned about the pace and keeping track of the rider behind I tend to lose my smoothness.

The reason I brought up bike type is I’ve noticed some very quick BMW GS riders on technical roads. After I got a couple of GS myself and found how easy it is to ride them fast on technical roads, I began to feel they have a distinct advantage over sportbikes. However, this could also be just a personal issue, that I’m not that good riding sportbikes in the first place, so I’d like to see more perspectives from guys who ride both types of bikes.

 

[budman]

Somebody on this board had in his signature line something like...

Fast at a racetrack is a measure of skill

Fast on the road is a matter of nerve.

When I think of the most "skilled" street riders I ride with, they all have an excellent ability to "read the road" and run a pace that's consistent with whatever hazards are out there. Seldom are they "taken by surprise."

But, they are not the fastest street riders. I think they are well skilled, and have the most "street smarts." A few used to road race, and they know the race pace is NOT for the street.

Well said. :thumbup

 

[russ69]

Lead or follow doesn't mater on the street, you shouldn't be going fast enough for that to mater. On the track I prefer to have clear track in front of me. On the street I ride "The Pace". That's my pace, not yours.

 

[Aware]

Answered in the quote. On the last point I don't always equate it to skill. It might be comfort factor and how much risk you are willing to take and the last part... yeah. I think that is what I said. :laughing

When you follow, it allows you to 'see' further ahead by watching the other rider's progress, so you can ride.a little faster, more safely. Provided you are close enough to see. If the other rider actually is faster, s/he can lose you in one corner and you'll never catch him/her.unless s/he let's you

 

[fubar929]

So, if I’m barely able to keeping pace on my upright bikes behind a sportbike rider, I generally feel the lead sportbike rider has more skills than me.

Maybe they have more skills, maybe they're just willing to take more risks. I've ridden with plenty of people who left me behind in the Santa Cruz mountains but couldn't keep up at the track. I'm more willing to push the envelope on a $5K track bike with an ambulance standing by than I am on a $20K street bike in an area without guaranteed cell reception...

 

[ScottRNelson]

I pretty much agree with Budman in post #4, except for the knee replacement part. A more upright bike is still more comfortable for my knees, though.

I prefer to either ride alone or lead. That way I have to judge every corner for proper entry speed and I'm quite good at doing that. I like roads that I've never seen before and the challenge of picking the right speed and line for every turn. When a road gets too familiar, like Palomares was for me, I have a tendency to ride a little faster than sight lines should allow, because I'm assuming the road is clear ahead. And when it isn't, it's a bit harder to get slowed down to avoid whatever hazard is there.

When I'm following other riders I have to really concentrate to choose my own line instead of following whoever is in front of me.

When I'm near a faster rider, I let them go on past if they caught me. Otherwise, if I notice that I'm even the tiniest bit outside of my comfort zone I'll slow down long enough for them to get out of sight. I don't ride faster than I normally would to try to keep up.

After a crash in 2003, I changed my whole riding focus to safe riding. I still like a spirited pace, but I don't want to deal with crashing a bike again. I've found the pace that feels good to me but also allows me to deal with whatever hazard is around that next blind turn. And I stick with that pace - if there's no reason to go slower.

 

[budman]

When you follow, it allows you to 'see' further ahead by watching the other rider's progress, so you can ride.a little faster, more safely. Provided you are close enough to see. If the other rider actually is faster, s/he can lose you in one corner and you'll never catch him/her.unless s/he let's you

I prefer to ride my pace. Following will give you a guide dog for the blind anticipation in some corners for sure, but for me the clutter of seeing them instead of everything the road is bringing does not really increase my comfort zone pace that much.

I prefer to be my own master of reality.

I am sure some who know me and have followed me here will say that it is a good sporting pace and I do a good job at it. To each there own.

 

[budman]

I will add that at times yes it does allow me to add pace to my comfort zone. However there are few riders that do that. Some yes. Hey KTMken. :wave

 

[Aware]

I prefer to ride my pace. Following will give you a guide dog for the blind anticipation in some corners for sure, but for me the clutter of seeing them instead of everything the road is bringing does not really increase my comfort zone pace that much.

I prefer to be my own master of reality.

I am sure some who know me and have followed me here will say that it is a good sporting pace and I do a good job at it. To each there own.

I totally prefer to ride my own pace.

And next I like leading and carefully matching the real pace of who follows.

I hate following. I understand the risks and the negatives.

 

[kuksul08]

I think following is easier because you can allow the person in front to be your eyes around blind corners.

The type of road dictates what kind of bike will be best. On average, an upright bike is easier and more versatile than a sport bike. There are cases when a sportbike has a clear advantage or a very small bike has an advantage, but these are outliers.


Speed on the street reaches a limit rather quick that is entirely dependent on sight lines and road knowledge. If you take two riders who know a road by heart, it becomes entirely sight-line based. I think unless you're willing to take chances, there is a limit to street riding speed where two riders of very different skill level will meet. On the track you can exploit more skill and more bike capability.

 

[tuxumino]

ride fast take chances, but I've slowed down on the street as I've gotten older and less bolder. Upright bike with bars seems easier on the street: head up can see farther ahead and more leverage when turning.

Started to realize that around every blind corner is a cager making a 3 point u-turn.

 

[DTM74]

There's a memorial just west of 121 on hwy 128 that's a good reminder where some idiot can pull a 3-pt turn/u-turn and someone can lose their life