Article: Prison spending vs Police spending
- Thread starter Tharkûn
- Start date
GAJ
Well-known member
When Prison Guards in CA have a stranglehold on the legislature it's no big surprise.
"Roughly 2,000 students have to decide by Sunday whether to accept a spot at Harvard. Here's some advice: Forget Harvard. If you want to earn big bucks and retire young, you're better off becoming a California prison guard.
The job might not sound glamorous, but a brochure from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations boasts that it "has been called 'the greatest entry-level job in California'—and for good reason. Our officers earn a great salary, and a retirement package you just can't find in private industry. We even pay you to attend our academy." That's right—instead of paying more than $200,000 to attend Harvard, you could earn $3,050 a month at cadet academy.
It gets better.
Training only takes four months, and upon graduating you can look forward to a job with great health, dental and vision benefits and a starting base salary between $45,288 and $65,364. By comparison, Harvard grads can expect to earn $49,897 fresh out of college and $124,759 after 20 years.
As a California prison guard, you can make six figures in overtime and bonuses alone. While Harvard-educated lawyers and consultants often have to work long hours with little recompense besides Chinese take-out, prison guards receive time-and-a-half whenever they work more than 40 hours a week. One sergeant with a base salary of $81,683 collected $114,334 in overtime and $8,648 in bonuses last year, and he's not even the highest paid.
Most Harvard grads only get three weeks of vacation each year, even after working for 20 years—and they're often too busy to take a long trip. Prison guards, on the other hand, get seven weeks of vacation, five of them paid. If they're too busy racking up overtime to use their vacation days, they can cash the days in when they retire. There's no cap on how many vacation days they can cash in! Eighty officers last year cashed in over $100,000 at retirement.
The cherry on top is the defined-benefit pension. Unlike most Harvard grads working in the private sector, prison guards don't have to delay retirement if their 401(k)s take a hit. Prison guards can retire at the age of 55 and earn 85% of their final year's salary for the rest of their lives. They also continue to receive medical benefits."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576285471510530398.html
"Roughly 2,000 students have to decide by Sunday whether to accept a spot at Harvard. Here's some advice: Forget Harvard. If you want to earn big bucks and retire young, you're better off becoming a California prison guard.
The job might not sound glamorous, but a brochure from the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations boasts that it "has been called 'the greatest entry-level job in California'—and for good reason. Our officers earn a great salary, and a retirement package you just can't find in private industry. We even pay you to attend our academy." That's right—instead of paying more than $200,000 to attend Harvard, you could earn $3,050 a month at cadet academy.
It gets better.
Training only takes four months, and upon graduating you can look forward to a job with great health, dental and vision benefits and a starting base salary between $45,288 and $65,364. By comparison, Harvard grads can expect to earn $49,897 fresh out of college and $124,759 after 20 years.
As a California prison guard, you can make six figures in overtime and bonuses alone. While Harvard-educated lawyers and consultants often have to work long hours with little recompense besides Chinese take-out, prison guards receive time-and-a-half whenever they work more than 40 hours a week. One sergeant with a base salary of $81,683 collected $114,334 in overtime and $8,648 in bonuses last year, and he's not even the highest paid.
Most Harvard grads only get three weeks of vacation each year, even after working for 20 years—and they're often too busy to take a long trip. Prison guards, on the other hand, get seven weeks of vacation, five of them paid. If they're too busy racking up overtime to use their vacation days, they can cash the days in when they retire. There's no cap on how many vacation days they can cash in! Eighty officers last year cashed in over $100,000 at retirement.
The cherry on top is the defined-benefit pension. Unlike most Harvard grads working in the private sector, prison guards don't have to delay retirement if their 401(k)s take a hit. Prison guards can retire at the age of 55 and earn 85% of their final year's salary for the rest of their lives. They also continue to receive medical benefits."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576285471510530398.html
clutchslip
Not as fast as I look.
There are a couple things in that article that are missing to make an accurate comparison with other countries, but I get the point.
While I understand you will may have a similar situation as the the guards as far as retirement, you still must admit that this kind of unreasonable pay is killing California. People live to eighty-five on a regular basis. This is another State Employee group that will suck the tax dollars at much higher pay than the private sector, while NOT WORKING for maybe as long as they did work. It is insane. And it just goes on and on, even though it is financial suicide. And unfair to those who pay for all these retirees and cannot retire themselves.
clutchslip
Not as fast as I look.
Why not? Isn't that part of the cost? Someone else brought up their pay. You brought up their pay. Pensions are part of their pay.
What is the point you would like me to address?
sidewazzz
Well-known member
We have a family member that is a prison guard, he has been attacked a couple times (once with a shank) and one that included having a shit/piss cocktale on him. :wow
SpeedyCorky
rides minibikes;U should2
i have a Criminal Justice BA, and highly considered becoming a LEO, or a prison guard..... until i heard some stories of the shit (pun intended) that prison guards have to deal with... yeah no thanx
sure the pay is great, the benefits are great, the retirement is great, the time off is great - feces with cum stirred around it in - being thrown at you just doesnt seem to make it into the "BECOME A PRISON GUARD" promotional brochures! not to mention that you are likely to get attacked, shanked, possibly even killed. and lets just pretend that none of that ever happens to you - you still spend 8 to 10 hours a day dealing with the absolute lowest level of society, and they all HATE you; talk down to you all day, degrade you in any way they can, etc
anyone who thinks prison guards are overpaid, simply doesnt know the real life realities of what it is like to be a prison guard.
America spends more on prisons than police? not surprised at all - we have the highest % of incarcerated people than any other country (by at least double IIRC); so it only follows that we'd be spending a lot more on prisons. we simply have more people to put in those prisons than other countries. and if you think that doubling spending $ on the police would decrease the # of people in prison - you have it quite backwards indeed :laughing
but still, IMO cops should be paid more, perhaps even a lot more; tho the job should require at least a BA in something, preferably criminal justice or a related degree. the fact that some bozo fresh outta high school, graduating with straight "D's for duhploma" can get a job as a LEO or prison guard - is pretty disgusting...... but thats another thread. spending more on prisons than police... hrm... sounds to me like we are spending too much money on our prisons. perhaps we should decrease living conditions and rights for prisoners... "3 hots and a cot" is better than living on the street in a lot of ways. prison is WAY too plush now a days... they have a cafeteria where they can buy snack food, they have TV's, medical, clean clothes... its pathetic.
sure the pay is great, the benefits are great, the retirement is great, the time off is great - feces with cum stirred around it in - being thrown at you just doesnt seem to make it into the "BECOME A PRISON GUARD" promotional brochures! not to mention that you are likely to get attacked, shanked, possibly even killed. and lets just pretend that none of that ever happens to you - you still spend 8 to 10 hours a day dealing with the absolute lowest level of society, and they all HATE you; talk down to you all day, degrade you in any way they can, etc
anyone who thinks prison guards are overpaid, simply doesnt know the real life realities of what it is like to be a prison guard.
America spends more on prisons than police? not surprised at all - we have the highest % of incarcerated people than any other country (by at least double IIRC); so it only follows that we'd be spending a lot more on prisons. we simply have more people to put in those prisons than other countries. and if you think that doubling spending $ on the police would decrease the # of people in prison - you have it quite backwards indeed :laughing
but still, IMO cops should be paid more, perhaps even a lot more; tho the job should require at least a BA in something, preferably criminal justice or a related degree. the fact that some bozo fresh outta high school, graduating with straight "D's for duhploma" can get a job as a LEO or prison guard - is pretty disgusting...... but thats another thread. spending more on prisons than police... hrm... sounds to me like we are spending too much money on our prisons. perhaps we should decrease living conditions and rights for prisoners... "3 hots and a cot" is better than living on the street in a lot of ways. prison is WAY too plush now a days... they have a cafeteria where they can buy snack food, they have TV's, medical, clean clothes... its pathetic.
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silverbelt
Well-known member
You couldn't pay me enough to work as a prison guard or correctional officer. The environment you have work in just plain sucks and is depressing, and then having to live a commutable distance. Spending every day of your work life with the worst of the worst. No way.
It's not right that we spend more on prisons than on police. Public safety should be at or near the top of the list in terms of priorities.
It's not right that we spend more on prisons than on police. Public safety should be at or near the top of the list in terms of priorities.
jdhu
Well-known member
So then, how much is a CO worth? $500k a year?
The simple fact is the CO lobby is extremely powerful, and they actively lobby for tougher sentencing laws and for more prisons. Legislators are more than receptive, because then they look "tough on crime" (as they audition for the next election/position).
I have a friend who is a prison psychologist at Folsom. Granted, it is one person's perspective, but I think the shit cocktails, stabbings of COs, etc. are way overstated. How many COs were killed in CA last year? Zero?
Many jobs suck, have long hours (that aren't compensated like COs), etc. It is cheesy, but I would bet that bus drivers (and certainly loggers, etc.) have a more dangerous job, by the numbers.
morthrane
Help I'* being Oppressed!
We also don't know the background on these CO anecdotes. Given the nature of humans-- the Stanford prison experiment comes to mind-- it could just as easily been self-inflicted karma boomerang on the part of the CO.
VicTim
VMCSF
Agreed, try working at MacDonalds, the pay sucks, you get no benifits and the cutomers are rude and might throw shitty food at you.
jdhu
Well-known member
Yeah, agreed, and that study was/is extremely interesting, but maybe not THAT surprising (check out the power trips with bouncers, court clerks, DMV staff, etc.).
Based on my completely outside perspective, it SEEMS that the verbal abuse, and being "talked down to" comes largely from the COs. I'm not saying this isn't understandable, but the COs have the power, not the other way around.
jdhu
Well-known member
Yup, and regarding feces (just one aspect of CO work, I realize), nurses (or more accurately, their aides) deal with shit on a daily basis, as do convalescent home staff, etc. How does their pay/pension compare?
The COs love to play up the supposed dangers and hazards of their jobs, that they are the civilized society's "last line" against anarchy, etc.
Brokenlink
Banned
2 guards one cup?
SpeedyCorky
rides minibikes;U should2
i think what COs earn now is about on par with what they should. i said that anyone who thinks they are overpaid is wrong. and notice i said LEOs should be paid more, but didnt include COs
teeth). and its not all about the danger of the job that makes it suck, thats not it *at all*. loggers dont have to watch their back all day and get snide looks all day and deal with the crappiest of crappy people.
but i agree with you 100% that there is a big problemo w/ the relationship between COs, and politicians. its been said that the department of corrections has one of the strongest unions. and its these unions that got the inmates these TVs and such. easier time for the inmates means less trouble for the officers. problem is deeper: in that the rules what powers the officers have in prison are limited, so they have difficulty properly controlling the inmates unless the inmate have TVs and such. if the COs were allowed an occasional justifiable ass whopping perhaps inmates wouldnt need TVs to behave themselves.... just sayin'
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CoorsLight
Well-known member
The expense of our corrections system isn't just due to COs or their unions, as powerful as they are. It's also the courts, sentencing practices, the privatization of jails, and the terms that the privatized jails demand of the state. On one hand, the cost per prisoner in a private system is supposed to be less, but the companies that run them do it on the guarantee that the facilities are at a certain capacity, IIRC it's typically 90%. WTF? How do you guarantee a minimum prison population?
It's sort of like public schools. Sure, there are teachers who get paid too much for doing next to nothing, and their union has a stranglehold on legislators, but ultimately it's the overall administration of the system that's really broken. Just like teachers, it's easy to blame the corrections officers.
It's sort of like public schools. Sure, there are teachers who get paid too much for doing next to nothing, and their union has a stranglehold on legislators, but ultimately it's the overall administration of the system that's really broken. Just like teachers, it's easy to blame the corrections officers.
CABilly
Splitter
Good ol' mandatory minimums and the War on Drugs. They will always ensure a robust prison population. And, if we had more cops with more resources, we'd just have more prisoners. (EDIT: without a change in policies RE sentencing and the like)
I don't shed one crocodile tear for prison guards. You want to talk about corrupt unions bleeding the state dry and influencing horrible policies, they should be the top of the list.
I don't shed one crocodile tear for prison guards. You want to talk about corrupt unions bleeding the state dry and influencing horrible policies, they should be the top of the list.
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