Arrested for wearing a helmet in Walmart

cheez

Master Of The Darkside
So, I thought this was an interesting (and infuriating) video. Local man stops at Walmart on the way to work to buy a few items at 8:30am. Walks into the store wearing riding gear and doesn't remove helmet, which is playing music over his Sena. Store manager is alarmed by this, follows man around and asks from a distance that he remove the helmet; man doesn't hear and doesn't realize he's being addressed. Manager makes no effort to get his attention (tap on shoulder, wave of hand, nothing.) Proceeds to check out, does so without incident, and then is arrested past the checkouts for "disorderly conduct" for his actions.

I wear helmets into businesses all the time, have for more than a decade, without any worry whatsoever. Sunday I wore my helmet into 7-11 and bought several items, paid, and left without any concern.

Anyone else find this as frustrating as I did? The officers seem to be incredibly abusive of the man's rights. All charges were dropped and the man has sued the city and PD (and Walmart) over the unwarranted arrest and false charges.


youtu.be/21___s1CJuA
 
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kelsodeez

2wheels good 4wheels bad
Wow what a stupid situation. I hope that dude wins his lawsuit because that shit was straight up harassment. They arrested him because "I don't like his attitude" basically.
 

Johndicezx9

Rolls with it...
I'm shocked a Walmart manager would be power trippin'... :laughing

IDK, helmet etiquette is somewhat personal, subjective, and situational. I try to show my face when I go into places, it's at the least "Non threatening", but the whole Covid mask thing is messing with what's threatening and not...

Certainly not worth a 911 call, or the overreaction.
 

Brokenlink

Banned
Yeah that's bullshit. That one cop was a complete dick.

One time, I walked into a moto shop (norcal sport touring) wearing my new glasses. They had those lenses that automatically went dark and light depending on the light in the room. Anyways, I wasn't used to glasses so I took them off when I walked up to the counter.

The owner, an ex-cop who could be cool at times but always treated me like I was about to rob him, made some comment about me wearing sunglasses into his store and how he doesn't trust me because of it.

I was like "WTF dude?"
 

Maddevill

KNGKAW
Wow what a stupid situation. I hope that dude wins his lawsuit because that shit was straight up harassment. They arrested him because "I don't like his attitude" basically.

Wayyyyy too many people get into police work because of the ability to hold power over others. This kind of thing, over the years has contributed to the anger against cops. My stepdaughter is married to a Vegas policeman. He's a good guy. But both of them refuse to even consider that they could be part of the problem

Mad
 

msethhunter

Well-known member
With the bodycam video and store security footage, seems like the dude has a pretty solid case. Tuscon has a reputation for having police like that who abuse their power both local PD and Sheriff.

The problem I see with a law suit is it doesn't do enough to curb this kind of shit. He should sue the ever loving shit out of them for sure. But everyone of these ball bags needs to be fired, and there needs to be a national database for police misconduct similar to what the FAA has for pilots a records of training (PRIA records).

I didn't see him being argumentative or non-compliant anywhere in the video.
 

Killroy1999

Well-known member
The cop is listening to his own lecture as he is reviewing the video of himself with his superior as the department is getting sued.

Protect and serve.
 

lefty

Well-known member
Wayyyyy too many people get into police work because of the ability to hold power over others. This kind of thing, over the years has contributed to the anger against cops. My stepdaughter is married to a Vegas policeman. He's a good guy. But both of them refuse to even consider that they could be part of the problem

Mad

I agree with this 100%. I have a nephew (by Marriage) who is a LEO. He was the BIGGEST Baby (that's not the word I want to use) as a Teenager. I took him camping one time (along with my Step-Daughters), and he was sooo upset about "being forced to go Camping", that he sat in the car for 2 hours crying, until I took him home. He was 15 y/o at the time.

I have a few other stories about him, but I will leave it there. Suffice to say- he is the perfect example of what you describe.
 

budman

General Menace
Staff member
I hope he wins his case too... man while the one cop was a dick the manager is a prick. He wanted him arrested. Dillsknob.

Guess he was late for work and did not get to enjoy his sandwich or peaches...:laughing

Fucked up.
 

bojangle

FN # 40
Staff member
Kind of a big nothing burger, really. Yeah, the one officer was abrasive. Nothing that's going to lead anywhere in a lawsuit. The dude was cooperative, definitely, though he seemed to also have a bit of an attitude. However, I'll go with the "dick cop" kinda bringing that out of him.

I do think the guy was intentionally disregarding the manager. Upon the initial contact, the manager walked right up to him and started talking to him. He obviously looks like a manager. The guy admitted he saw this and gave a lame excuse. He didn't lift his visor, turn his head, or make any acknowledgment to the manager to determine what he was tryung to tell him. Because it's just not common sense, when you know you're face is completely covered by a helmet with reflective visor, to simply ignore a manager who clearly walked up to you and started talking. Whose fault is it that he had a helmet on, with reflective visor down, playing music? Hint, it's not the manager's fault. It's perfectly reasonable, and within the manager's right and job duties, to address this and not allow someone dressed like that in the store.

I've walked into a store with a helmet on, but it's usually something like getting a receipt at a gas station, or something quick and simple like that. I also always lift the visor and I don't play music, so if an employee asked me to take it off, I wouldn't ignore them, and I'd comply. Sure looked like this guy didn't want to comply.

But even if you take his word at face value, and assume he did absolutely nothing wrong, the manager still had a valid reason to call the police and the police had reasonable suspicion to detain and identify him.

Regarding the crime(s). Personally, i think the initial plan was sufficient. The manager wanted the guy advised that he could no longer come back or he would be arrested for trespassing. They gave him the advisement and were going to let him leave. They then changed their mind and, while I think the initial plan was the best, I can understand the justification for arresting him for trespassing, based on the manager's statement that he told the guy numerous times and he refused to leave, and also factoring in the mild argumentative nature of the guy, which could lead someone to believe that a warning and trespassing admonition wouldn't solve the problem. So, while i don't believe it's the best solution, it seems like the elements are there, the officers had probable cause for a trespassing type of arrest, and it could be seen as a reasonable decision.

At the end, the officer tells the guy he's being arrested for disorderly conduct. I believe this is in Texas and I looked up disorderly conduct in Texas.

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.42.htm

It looks like several different California penal codes all rolled into one. It also doesn't look like they would have probable cause that the man was in violation of any of that. It simply doesn't apply, whereas trespassing does, or could, apply. It says in the video that mics were muted at the end for the police conversation with each other. I'm guessing maybe they were talking about the charge at that point. Maybe one of them felt the trespassing was weak and suggested they go with disorderly conduct. These conversations will sometimes occur at that point, and officers like to turn off cameras for that too. Our DA has told us to keep them running so there aren't questions about it. If it's turned off it opens the defense argument to all sorts of suggestions. Another factor about the two charges are that trespassing is a crime where Wal-Mart is the victim, and there could be an issue if they did not want to press charges. I never heard them ask the manager if he wished to seek criminal charges right then, only that he wanted him admonished for trespassing. Maybe an officer did ask off camera and the manager said no. That could be an issue. Either that, or they wanted to "simplify" things by keeping the manager from having to be a victim. I've done this, at times, where I will arrest someone for a crime against the state instead of the victim. It still solves the problem. Disorderly conduct would be a crime against the state. The problem is, I'm not seeing how that applies. So they should have stuck with their original plan, and if they must arrest, keep it to the trespassing/refusing to leave type charge.

So their could possibly be grounds for a lawsuit based on an arrest for a crime that didn't apply. But I still don't think that would go anywhere, considering that they did have a crime that applied, which was the trespassing charge he was originally advised of.
 
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jdhu

Well-known member
Yeah, pretty infuriating. Fast forwarded through much of the video; he was arrested for trespassing?

Manager and one cop were total dicks. The rider's attitude was fine (and of course, it's not illegal to be argumentative), he was just explaining he couldn't hear the manager. Not sure why the manager kept pressing that issue.
 

jdhu

Well-known member
Kind of a big nothing burger, really. Yeah, the one officer was abrasive. Nothing that's going to lead anywhere in a lawsuit. The dude was cooperative, definitely, though he seemed to also have a bit of an attitude. However, I'll go with the "dick cop" kinda bringing that out of him.

I do think the guy was intentionally disregarding the manager. Upon the initial contact, the manager walked right up to him and started talking to him. He obviously looks like a manager. The guy admitted he saw this and gave a lame excuse. He didn't lift his visor, turn his head, or make any acknowledgment to the manager to determine what he was tryung to tell him. Because it's just not common sense, when you know you're face is completely covered by a helmet with reflective visor, to simply ignore a manager who clearly walked up to you and started talking. Whose fault is it that he had a helmet on, with reflective visor down, playing music? Hint, it's not the manager's fault. It's perfectly reasonable, and within the manager's right and job duties, to address this and not allow someone dressed like that in the store.

I've walked into a store with a helmet on, but it's usually something like getting a receipt at a gas station, or something quick and simple like that. I also always lift the visor and I don't play music, so if an employee asked me to take it off, I wouldn't ignore them, and I'd comply. Sure looked like this guy didn't want to comply.

But even if you take his word at face value, and assume he did absolutely nothing wrong, the manager still had a valid reason to call the police and the police had reasonable suspicion to detain and identify him.

Man...must disagree. No indication to me the guy knew the manager was trying to get his attention, and the guy did not seem argumentative at all. He simply explained he didn't hear the manager, the manager had a headset on (so manager talking into the air doesn't seem strange), etc.

This is in Arizona.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/arizona-law/arizona-criminal-trespass-laws.html

OK, police could detain him, but the arrest? Why didn't the manager simply wave his arms around, to make sure the guy paid attention?

I linked the AZ statutes and skimmed them. 13-1502 seems the most applicable:

A person commits criminal trespass in the third degree by:

1. Knowingly entering or remaining unlawfully on any real property after a reasonable request to leave by a law enforcement officer, the owner or any other person having lawful control over such property, or reasonable notice prohibiting entry.


Pretty easy to argue the rider didn't "knowingly" remain, and his entrance was of course lawful.
 

ScarySpikes

tastes like burning
This will end up with a settlement with both the PD and with Walmart for an undisclosed amount, no court trial. It will cost more for the PD and a hell of a lot more for Walmart to drag this into court. Officers and the Manager were clearly being dicks. I don't think the guy was being particularly rude at any point in time.
 

Alan_Hepburn

Well-known member
At the end, the officer tells the guy he's being arrested for disorderly conduct. I believe this is in Texas and I looked up disorderly conduct in Texas.

When they were escorting him out to the car I thought I saw "Santa Clarita" on the front fender of the car - that would put it in California, not Texas...
 
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