Ambulance Approaches From Behind...

[McGrude]

Here's the scenario...

You're the only one in a left hand turn lane waiting for the left light to turn green. The three lanes to your right are three or four cars deep waiting for their light to turn green too. (Therefore the cross traffic has the green light). Other than one cross traffic car that triggered the light change there is no traffic in the intersection.

I hear a siren and look in my mirror and an ambulance with lights blazing is entering the left turn lane behind me. It's what would appear to be his least obstructed path through the intersection. Without hesitating I look at the lights which are still red, look to my right at the cars waiting for their light, look at the intersection which is clear. I pull out into the intersection and turn right in front of the three lanes of cars waiting for the light and go down the street to the right, letting the ambulance through and on their way to save someone's life.

As an LEO if you observed this, what would you have done? Would you cite me? I've thought about this for years. This is exactly something I did on El Camino in Redwood City about 10 years ago. (Sorry but this was in a car not on a bike, so the ambulance could not just squeeze by me in the lane if I made room).

 

[NorCalBusa]

Nope- you did well. The code calls for you to go all the way to the right curb and stop there however...can't imagine you getting a ticket though, you did better than most.

 

[Diezel]

While technically what you did IS indeed illegal (in more then one way). I don't think you'd find ANY leo to be that cold hearted to actually ticket you for it, since what you did was technically safe to you and the other motorists.

 

[moond0ggie]

You made way for an emergency vehicle, no trouble there.

 

[Diezel]

Not true. Technically he DID run a red light. He technically made an Illegal Lane Change.

Again, I don't think you'd find any leo that cold hearted to actually ticket you for doing the above, safely.

Hell most idiots just run the red light and risk everyone's life around them.

 

[!xobile]

Good question. I want to also add: how about intersections with red light cameras?

 

[NorCalBusa]

Not true. Technically he DID run a red light. He technically made an Illegal Lane Change.

Again, I don't think you'd find any leo that cold hearted to actually ticket you for doing the above, safely.

Hell most idiots just run the red light and risk everyone's life around them.

Avoid the word "technically"- it means nothing. When an emergency vehicle approaches, you are ordered by the vehicle code to proceed to the curb- run a red light, lane change, turn, whatever- as you need to. 21806(a)

 

[Flying Pig]

Good question. I want to also add: how about intersections with red light cameras?

From what I understand about red light cameras, they take a sequence of photos, so hopefully the ambulance would show up on the camera as well, in case it ever comes in front of a judge.. :dunno

 

[spdt509]

i said no ticket as well.assuming he was on his DR,he could've hop the curb to his left......:teeth

 

[McGrude]

Avoid the word "technically", technically it means nothing.

Fixed... oh wait.

 

[otterley]

Here's the scenario...

You're the only one in a left hand turn lane waiting for the left light to turn green. The three lanes to your right are three or four cars deep waiting for their light to turn green too. (Therefore the cross traffic has the green light). Other than one cross traffic car that triggered the light change there is no traffic in the intersection.

I hear a siren and look in my mirror and an ambulance with lights blazing is entering the left turn lane behind me. It's what would appear to be his least obstructed path through the intersection. Without hesitating I look at the lights which are still red, look to my right at the cars waiting for their light, look at the intersection which is clear. I pull out into the intersection and turn right in front of the three lanes of cars waiting for the light and go down the street to the right, letting the ambulance through and on their way to save someone's life.

As an LEO if you observed this, what would you have done? Would you cite me? I've thought about this for years. This is exactly something I did on El Camino in Redwood City about 10 years ago. (Sorry but this was in a car not on a bike, so the ambulance could not just squeeze by me in the lane if I made room).

Remember, in any ticketing situation, there are up to 3 parties involved: you, the LEO, and the judge. If the LEO cites you in a situation like this, you can still go to court and plead your case. And this seems like a situation where no reasonable judge is going to find you guilty.

 

[}Dragon{]

Remember, in any ticketing situation, there are up to 3 parties involved: you, the LEO, and the judge. If the LEO cites you in a situation like this, you can still go to court and plead your case. And this seems like a situation where no reasonable judge is going to find you guilty.

If you can prove to the judge that your actions were safe and prudent.

Most of the time the amberlamps (or other emergency vehicle) will, when practical/safe, go into the opposing lanes of traffic, to get through a packed intersection. If they get stuck and can't move, they usually turn off the siren and wait for the green. Some counties have a system called Opticom that preempts the traffic light, giving the emergency vehicle a green light for their direction of travel as they approach the intersection.

 

[Diezel]

Avoid the word "technically"- it means nothing. When an emergency vehicle approaches, you are ordered by the vehicle code to proceed to the curb- run a red light, lane change, turn, whatever- as you need to. 21806(a)

That's odd. I've been told by LEO's running a red light, for a EV behind you, is STILL running the red light. And thus a ticket earning offense.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Let's see what our resident experts have to say, but I'll bet a pair of used earplugs that...

That's odd. I've been told by LEO's running a red light, for a EV behind you, is STILL running the red light. And thus a ticket earning offense.

 

[SuperMike]

This story sounds a little familiar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1onAyXjCP40

 

[Lorry]

That's odd. I've been told by LEO's running a red light, for a EV behind you, is STILL running the red light. And thus a ticket earning offense.

Yup. There was a recent article (maybe in SJ News) where someone asked exactly the OP's question. The LEO's response was along the lines of "It is always dangerous and illegal to run the red light, and you will be cited".

I would still make it a personal judgement call, in the same way that the safest action isn't always the legal one.

 

[dagle]

In this situation I would definitely move, but the question I have which may or may not be a bit off topic is, could you get a citation for NOT moving?

 

[RolnCode3]

First off, it's shitty that they forced you to make this type of decision. I admit I've put people in this same spot, and felt bad about it afterwards, because it forces the other driver to choose amongst a list of bad options. It's tough for us to anticipate everything, and sometimes we get it wrong.

Best solution would have been for the ambulance crew to either deactivate the lights and wait, or find another route through the intersection and then reactivate the lights (this is what we're taught), or get on the PA and give instructions to everyone on what to do, mostly to help you get safely out of their way. I have done that before (told all of the drivers to wait for a green light, then allow the car I'm behind to proceed first and move over - and had good compliance with it).

Really depends on how hot the call you're going to is.

From my standpoint, you didn't run the red light. All I see is a traffic control device violation CVC 22101(d) (right turn from left turn lane), but I would not cite you, as long as you made that movement with relative safety. But that's just me.

In this situation I would definitely move, but the question I have which may or may not be a bit off topic is, could you get a citation for NOT moving?

Yes. CVC 21806(a)(1) - Yield to emergency vehicle.

Just saw this, and too lazy to look up the definition. Anyone know what these types of lanes are?
(2) A person driving a vehicle in an exclusive or preferential use
lane shall exit that lane immediately upon determining that the exit
can be accomplished with reasonable safety.

 

[McGrude]

Wow this has bee a really interesting discussion. I'm glad I posted it because I have enjoyed the responses. Thanks everyone.

 

[n10sive]

Just saw this, and too lazy to look up the definition. Anyone know what these types of lanes are?
(2) A person driving a vehicle in an exclusive or preferential use
lane shall exit that lane immediately upon determining that the exit
can be accomplished with reasonable safety.

I would bet diamond lane, dedicated turn lanes etc.

FWIW, when driving an ambulance I had this happen all the time. TECHNICALLY, you have to obey the laws, period. The problem with some people is they panic and forget the "safely" part. Some people totally freak and do the weirdest things. I think that if you are stopped at an intersection, and you are boxed in, that you stay right where you are. I'll find a way to get around you. But if you start moving and doing unpredictable things, it makes it tough on the ambulance driver/cop.

I also don't know about the other code 3 drivers here, but we were forbidden from passing anyone on the right (This should also tell you...don't pull to the left :laughing). This is the direction people will panic turn to so we could not do it. I have had to drive behind some obliviots for miles who wouldn't check their mirror and move over because of this. Luckily the LEO's love to watch for these guys when fire goes by.

But as mentioned in other posts, if I am completely boxed in, I would turn off the siren and wait. Heck, driving our fire engine I could barely do the speed limit sometimes and if responding on the highway, we would just turn everything off to avoid problems until we exited the highway.