Advice for small track bike - Ninja 400 v RC390 v R3

[Killin_ix]

Just finished a trackway this past weekend. Started horrible as my bike had technical issues - did not start. Luckily Feel Like a Pro was there to save my day. This turned into a blessing in disguised because 1. I got to try out the new Ninja 400 2. I had a blast on that little bike. Talking to Dave afterward I was surprise to find out that the bike is mostly stock (minus clip on, tires, break pads and rearset). Kawasaki has greatly improved the Ninja from the 250 days.

I’ve ridden many types of bikes on the track - R6, SV650, GSXR 600 & 750, 600RR, and currently 675. My confident on the 400 was a game changer. The smile I had on my face as I was bombing corners and dragging knee was criminal.

So here’s some question:
For those that have or tracked lower displacement motorcycle. Which one would be best Ninja 400, RC390, R3?

Would like input mostly on front end feel. Cause I expected the Ninja to have a very light almost twitchy front - like my 250. But this was not the case. The 400 felt like it was on rails. Wondering if the other two mentioned motorcycle above have similar feel.

I know there's info on the web comparing these bike but I would like advice and trust the Barf racing community.

 

[stangmx13]

front end feel depends a ton on chassis settings and tires. if u don't like the feel of a certain bike, then change things until u do. a diff tire brand or moving the forks up/down 5-10mm will have a HUGE effect on feeling.

Ive ridden FLAP's Ninja300 w/ Pirelli tires and their Ninja400 w/ the OEM tires. the 300 was more stable with the better tires. FLAP prob has those Pirellis on the 400s now, so u prob rode on them.

ive also ridden an RC390 with aftermarket suspension on Dunlop race tires. the front end was shit because the fork carts had a terrible damping curve. unfortunately the external adjusters wouldn't change it enough to fix the feeling. the bike was borrowed and I only rode it for one day. ive worked on it a bunch though too and that made me want to pull my hair out.

if I was buying a track bike, id get the 400 for sure. the extra grunt/torque makes trackdays more fun because it makes passing easier, especially in B group. the RC390 is an impossible mess with aftermarket part support and ease of working on it, so I can't recommend it. I havent ridden an R3, but it def doesn't have the power of the 400 when near stock.

 

[jmann]

What about if you’re getting one for racing? Would the Ninja 400 be allowed with the current classes (R3, Ninja 300, RC390)? I’d assume from the specs it would dominate the other small bikes.

 

[295566]

in before "get an SV650"

 

[twistybits]

What about if you’re getting one for racing? Would the Ninja 400 be allowed with the current classes (R3, Ninja 300, RC390)? I’d assume from the specs it would dominate the other small bikes.

Alright, I'm dog slow so don't pay too much attention to my opinion, but when I jumped on my R3 while being out of shape and not riding for 1 year, I was almost immediately beating my old Ninja 300 times by 4 seconds. I haven't ridden the Ninja 400, but the R3 chassis to me seems superior to the Ninja 300.

Probably a lack of rider talent and setup, but on my 300 I was always struggling with the front pushing in corners, my R3 corners like there's no tomorrow.

 

[easter bunny]

What about if you’re getting one for racing? Would the Ninja 400 be allowed with the current classes (R3, Ninja 300, RC390)? I’d assume from the specs it would dominate the other small bikes.

Curious as well. Outside a Formula class the only thing I can see is the twins or the 450 SS and it would get killed by the SVs and triples. Seems to be a bike without a home - like Kawi just dropped in a bigger motor to market it against the other 300s. Just like when they moved to 300 from 250.

 

[stangmx13]

the 400 is a completely new bike. new frame, new engine, new suspension, everything. they must have figured out from their previous jump from 250 to 300 they'd sell a shit ton by going bigger again before everyone else. what else could convince them to put in some effort.

or maybe they just wanted to destroy the competition in WSSP300 and MA300 :laughing

 

[Killin_ix]

front end feel depends a ton on chassis settings and tires. if u don't like the feel of a certain bike, then change things until u do. a diff tire brand or moving the forks up/down 5-10mm will have a HUGE effect on feeling.

Ive ridden FLAP's Ninja300 w/ Pirelli tires and their Ninja400 w/ the OEM tires. the 300 was more stable with the better tires. FLAP prob has those Pirellis on the 400s now, so u prob rode on them.

ive also ridden an RC390 with aftermarket suspension on Dunlop race tires. the front end was shit because the fork carts had a terrible damping curve. unfortunately the external adjusters wouldn't change it enough to fix the feeling. the bike was borrowed and I only rode it for one day. ive worked on it a bunch though too and that made me want to pull my hair out.

if I was buying a track bike, id get the 400 for sure. the extra grunt/torque makes trackdays more fun because it makes passing easier, especially in B group. the RC390 is an impossible mess with aftermarket part support and ease of working on it, so I can't recommend it. I havent ridden an R3, but it def doesn't have the power of the 400 when near stock.

Thanks Rob. Exactly the feedback I was looking for.

Sort of had a clue that front end feel can be tuned to one's desire.

Now off to look for a bike. Ninja 300 and R3 are really affordable right now. But like you said, that Ninja 400 grunt will be very useful. If only I can get one for around $4k lol.

 

[Junkie]

I wonder whether Stockton will allow 400s

 

[DannoXYZ]

What about if you’re getting one for racing? Would the Ninja 400 be allowed with the current classes (R3, Ninja 300, RC390)? I’d assume from the specs it would dominate the other small bikes.

Yes, because it's TWIN CYLINDER. Here's excerpt from Bikes and Classing section of AFM rulebook:

6.1.3 PRODUCTION: Production Rules apply (ref. Section 9.1). Each of the following displacement categories is a class:

175-250 cc
251-350 cc
351-450 cc ....... (plus 399-450 cc import/domestic 4-cylinders. ref. 6.1.3(g), and 3/4 600 cc bikes ref 6.1.7.)
451-600 cc
600-700 cc .......... Twin cylinder motorcycles
601-750 cc
751-0pen cc

a) The following four-strokes may run down one class in Production as long as the bike meets all other Production requirements: Singles, Twins, 675cc Triples and 636 4-cylinders.

b) Twins may not run down a class into 250 Production. Singles running down into 250 Production are limited to 400 cc.

c) Water cooled Twins are limited to a 250 cc displacement advantage when running down a class.

So the 300 twins run in 251-350cc class and 400 may drop down one class into same. About 15-lbs lighter than 300s with +10-15bhp advantage. SV650s would run in 451-600cc class and have to go up against 675 triples.

 

[stangmx13]

Yes, because it's TWIN CYLINDER. Here's excerpt from Bikes and Classing section of AFM rulebook:

So the 300 twins run in 251-350cc class and 400 may drop down one class into same. About 15-lbs lighter than 300s with +10-15bhp advantage. SV650s would run in 451-600cc class and have to go up against 675 triples.

new displacements usually require club orgs to change their rules. hopefully the clubs get on top of it in time to avoid tons of unhappy customers.

 

[R3DS!X]

rsv 250

 

[Idioteque]

find an old fzr-400

Just kidding. But are there smaller displacement inline 3s or 4s out right now?

 

[Junkie]

find an old fzr-400

Just kidding. But are there smaller displacement inline 3s or 4s out right now?

the smallest current production triple that I'm aware of is the 765 (675 is no more), the smallest current production four that I'm aware of is 600cc.

 

[kxmike]

front end feel depends a ton on chassis settings and tires. if u don't like the feel of a certain bike, then change things until u do. a diff tire brand or moving the forks up/down 5-10mm will have a HUGE effect on feeling.

Ive ridden FLAP's Ninja300 w/ Pirelli tires and their Ninja400 w/ the OEM tires. the 300 was more stable with the better tires. FLAP prob has those Pirellis on the 400s now, so u prob rode on them.

ive also ridden an RC390 with aftermarket suspension on Dunlop race tires. the front end was shit because the fork carts had a terrible damping curve. unfortunately the external adjusters wouldn't change it enough to fix the feeling. the bike was borrowed and I only rode it for one day. ive worked on it a bunch though too and that made me want to pull my hair out.

if I was buying a track bike, id get the 400 for sure. the extra grunt/torque makes trackdays more fun because it makes passing easier, especially in B group. the RC390 is an impossible mess with aftermarket part support and ease of working on it, so I can't recommend it. I havent ridden an R3, but it def doesn't have the power of the 400 when near stock.

Something wrong with that rc390 set up. I'm running Andreanni cartridges with Ohlins shock on my rc and it's the best handling bike I've ridden. It corners like it's on rails. Also...it doesn't seem to be harder to work on than any of the other bikes I've owned...(lots)....quality of some parts could be better though.

 

[stangmx13]

Something wrong with that rc390 set up. I'm running Andreanni cartridges with Ohlins shock on my rc and it's the best handling bike I've ridden. It corners like it's on rails. Also...it doesn't seem to be harder to work on than any of the other bikes I've owned...(lots)....quality of some parts could be better though.

Ya, the feeling was more caused by the fork carts and setup than the chassis itself. I have no idea who installed those or yours, and Andreani sells 2 diff versions, so it’s impossible to compare.

“On rails” is kinda meaningless to me. If u haven’t found something wrong with your setup, go faster. Problems will show up.

 

[Killin_ix]

Something wrong with that rc390 set up. I'm running Andreanni cartridges with Ohlins shock on my rc and it's the best handling bike I've ridden. It corners like it's on rails. Also...it doesn't seem to be harder to work on than any of the other bikes I've owned...(lots)....quality of some parts could be better though.

What year is your RC390? I read countless stuff about the motor overheating and the blowing up. I think Ari Henning was talking about something similar in his videos or blog. Thoughts?

Edit: Just saw your signature. You have a 2017 RC. Wondering if the newer RC solved the over heating issues.

 

[ratlab]

Had rc390 with ohlins and andreanis/supercorsas.fantastic handling.got a r3 with ohlins,traxxion and power RS.pretty close handling wise.r3 is easier to ride because of power band,RC wins on brakes and torque.riding position for track better on rc.i had no relibility problems with 2016 rc and rc has slipper which helps.both had fuel management,both made around 42rwhp.i would go with r3 and with norton motorsports ecu flash/catalogue/spears racing/catalogue.

 

[kxmike]

What year is your RC390? I read countless stuff about the motor overheating and the blowing up. I think Ari Henning was talking about something similar in his videos or blog. Thoughts?

Edit: Just saw your signature. You have a 2017 RC. Wondering if the newer RC solved the over heating issues.

Just blew the head gasket last weekend! (3000 miles). KTM has an updated head and cylinder that should fix the problem and it's covered under warrantee but I'll be without a bike for awhile . Sucks cause I could do it myself in a weekend if they'd just give me the parts!

 

[kxmike]

Ya, the feeling was more caused by the fork carts and setup than the chassis itself. I have no idea who installed those or yours, and Andreani sells 2 diff versions, so it’s impossible to compare.

“On rails” is kinda meaningless to me. If u haven’t found something wrong with your setup, go faster. Problems will show up.

Agree but the "on rails" comment is based on how it compares to other bikes I've ridden at the same speeds ...the RC feels like it will corner by itself and YES...I need to adjust my limits now!:laughing

Oh...I installed the cartridges myself....a bit of a pain in the ass... but at least I know it was done right!