A Crash for my 6th anniversary or riding :facepalm

i_am_the_koi

Be Here Now
Yup, finally happened, a legit motorcycle crash.

75k of riding under my belt, and I went down 5 miles from my home, on a relaxing cruise with my dad. He on his '82 GS450, me on my Concours 1000. :facepalm

It was on a road that I literally learned to drive and ride on, and have put so many laps on it growing up that I know the turns by heart. :facepalm

It happened on a turn that I know, that I have actually crashed a car on and been inside other cars that have crashed, and that I was, in my mind, prepared for. :facepalm


Anywho, luckily my only injury was my pride, so I wanted to add the BARF salt and really learn from my mistakes.


As I said, I had gone out with my dad for a quick loop around one of our favorite roads. Dry Creek Road in Napa is a great loop for a quick 30 minute ride and something I have done hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands of times. I can visualize pretty much every turn in succession, and feel it is my "home track". It has also been a place that has taught me to not treat it like the track and now I ride it more to warm up the bike and get out of the house for a short ride. I save my red mist for one spot on the entire road, and only because it is a jump if you hit it just right. :laughing

This particular turn is a downhill left hander into a short and tight right hand turn, still downhill. It is always in the shade (though it's funny that google-car caught it the one day it evidently gets the right angle of sun) and is usually coated with red sand to help with any frost that sticks around. The mountain gives it a good consistent coating of water so you can usually count the corner to be slick to some extent.

Linky - https://goo.gl/maps/KLCMHv8sZrp - Linky


Following dad on his 450 there is no real reason to go fast, so I was enjoying a putt behind him and watched as he entered the turn. I was off the gas or at minimal input, in 2nd gear, knowing the tight turn and probably slick nature. I was probably 50 feet behind him entering the turn and so he was already making the right as I was making the left. As i got towards the end of the left I heard him say "woah" over the intercom and let off the gas and gave it some rear brake not knowing why he was saying woah.

As soon as I did, the rear tire locked up and the rear stepped out to my left. I let off the brake and reapplied even more gingerly thinking that I had been heavy footed. It again, locked up and stepped out but this time it went to full lock and I sat there sliding for what seemed like eternity before falling down. I remember thinking, "shit I'm actually crashing" before I hit the ground.

I remember trying to hold onto the bike as it slid away and was amazed at how strongly it pulled from my hands.

I remember watching my tank bag slide across the ground and was disappointed that the magnets didn't hold longer.

I remember laying back and telling myself not to try and stand or roll until I was done sliding.

I remember watching the hill side approach and hoping that it was going to be gentle.

***BOOP***


That was it? That was my first crash? I stood up disappointed. My gear, muddy, looked fine. I walked over to my bike and it looked pretty ok as well on it's side. THAT WAS IT!!??? My first crash, a boop, not a bang??!??! I then realized my bike was probably on, nope, I evidently hit the kill switch as it slid because it was off. THAT WAS IT??? I don't know why but this is what I kept saying.

I tried getting my dad on the intercom but had turned it off with my shoulder in the slide. I motioned to him as he pulled up that I was ok and lifted my bike up.

Overall, minimal damage. It slid mostly on the hard bag so the one side got lots of scratches. So much so that it ground a hole into the corner of the bag. There was minimal contact on the front body fairing but a pretty good scratch that was the main point of contact. No cracks in the fairings that weren't already there but I think one might be a little larger. No broken mirrors, mounts, signals, handles, controls, nothing.

As I inspected the scene and took some pictures a car pulled up. Two kids out for a ride. He ask if we're ok and then says, "I just crashed on my way through the other way 5 minutes ago, you can see where I hit the dirt"...

Sure enough, 4 feet behind my marks were fresh dirt and marks like a car had banked it off the hill.

The tradition of teenagers, parent's cars, and dry creek road continues.

I walked up the hill wanting to see where I slid and for how long. The ground wasn't just wet, it was almost coated in a green algae and was slicker than shit.


My first slide looked to be about 6-10 feet.
14956544_1403906226300456_4358592874187795394_n.jpg




Second slide was longer, 15-20 feet I'd guess and went from rear end lock to full sideways slide very quickly.
15079042_1403906392967106_9076494825972458630_n.jpg



You can see the scratches from where my bike actually hit the ground here and where I slid into the hillside. The scratches pretty much go right with the bike towards the telephone pole. Right behind that you can see another dirt impression where I hit. About 2 feet behind that you can see where the car banked it. :laughing

15036580_1403906572967088_3989165606641990180_n.jpg




You can see better where the bike hit and I hit in this one. The dirt/pine needles helped slow the bike and it never made contact with the pole luckily.
15073289_1403906959633716_248271951529732828_n.jpg



You can see the scratches on the side bag. That corner is where it now has a hole in it.
14947835_1403907266300352_8500452598362673183_n.jpg



Scratches on the fairing, not bad at all.
15036294_1403907202967025_5328994407260163513_n.jpg







Gear did it's job. I was wearing a pair of BILT vented overpants that I threw on at the last minute over my jeans because I was afraid it was going to be cold. I was wearing a Tourmaster Saber jacket, Sedici gloves, Kali Helmet and BILT Boots. I landed on my right hip area, right where the padding on both the jacket and pants were at. I also had them zipped together which I will always do from now on. The jacket has a small tear in the sleeve at a seam point, it looks to me like it was pulled apart more than it slid on that spot, but it also could have been there before and I didn't notice. Pants are dirty, that's it. No tears, rips, nothing. Boots and gloves had mud on them but that was it.


After getting the bike up, I continued the ride and felt out the bike. Nothing seemed off. The bag it slid on might be a tad more wobbly than before but I'm not sure.



Overall, I was lucky. No oncoming car, I didn't hit the pole or hill harder, the bike is fine for the most part.



But, I want to learn about this one as well to avoid it in the future, or know how to respond when something like this happens.


I know that downhill turns are a weak spot for me and I've asked BARFs advice on getting better at them. Using my core is usually the answer here. Thinking back to it. I was extremely loose on the bike. Again, following dad, not going fast, just out for a cruise, dangerous corner, I wasn't taking the corner seriously and just was putting.

I bet if I had just turned and not worried about braking I would have made it. I only applied the brakes initially because I had my dad say "woah" and instinctually gave it some until I knew why he was saying that. At the point of the slide I was off the brake, and still feel if I had turned I would have made it at that point. But my mind was still in "brake" mode and I applied them again.

I probably should have been on the gas more than 5% or less. Being the corner it was, I've always cruised through it but maybe a gear lower and more gas?




What say you BARF?
 

Maddevill

KNGKAW
You didn't mention anything about using any front brake. Did you or just used the rear? the rear can be real sensitive especially in areas of low traction. Even on slick surfaces the front can be more effective.
 

i_am_the_koi

Be Here Now
No front brake that I remember at all. I gave it some rear to figure out what was going on ahead of me, started to slide, and then got focused on slowing down from the slide and not turning the bike.
 

Smash Allen

Banned
your intercom caused you to crash due to overreacting to the stimulus it presented

maybe practice by listening to static with random "OH SHIT" sounds thrown in there?
 

Gary856

Are we having fun yet?
On a downhill the weight is biased forward. Braking shifts the weight farther forward. The rear is lightly loaded, so it's very easy to lock up the rear. Don't use the rear brake in that situation. If you must, straighten up a bit and squeeze on the front brake to bleed off speed, and then continue with the turn.
 
Last edited:

motomania2007

TC/MSF/CMSP/ Instructor
Lots of thoughts several are covered above.

Where were you looking while riding this turn you knew so well?

Roads and places we know well, can often cause us to become complacent. You described your complacent attitude on this ride several times in your description. Letting your guard down reduced your ability to ride properly and it bit you.

You knew this corner was sometimes complicated by surface issues yet you allowed it to surprise you with a surface issue...

In almost every instance brakes should be used together. There are exceptions but this was not one of them.

I also suggest learning how to trailbrake. Trailbraking would have more easily allowed you to smoothly reduce your speed a little. Given the surface issues trailbraking might or might not help.
 

NorCal Factory

Well-known member
I think you are a good rider based on your record, and just hit a super slippery spot. If the car went off the road with four tires of traction potential you probably had no chance.

Yes all the above suggestions apply most of the time but sometimes your number is up. Two other lessons: AGATT and there is a time and place for everything.

If that was a busy road with oncoming traffic it may have had much more risk. You chose a country road at a non busy time and it as a minor incident. Good time/place.
 
Last edited:

mototireguy

Moto Tire Veteran
#1 you're ok.

Combination of muddy algae gunk on road surface? Kind of a no win situation.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

Depending on being able to see this road surface condition in advance maybe layoff any turning, accel or braking inputs while passing over the gunk? Not much help if in the middle of a turn and delaying any inputs will send you off the road.
 
Last edited:

i_am_the_koi

Be Here Now
your intercom caused you to crash due to overreacting to the stimulus it presented

maybe practice by listening to static with random "OH SHIT" sounds thrown in there?


:rofl

I reacted to the intercom. Again, knowing the road, "woah" could be anything from a slick patch to a bus fill of tourist that made a wrong turn and got stuck trying to turn around. Deer, tourist, bicyclist, drunk teens or recently a drunk school bus driver.

Not knowing the reason for the woah, I wanted to slow down until I did. If i had just turned I probably would have been fine. I don't know.

On a downhill the weight is biased forward. Braking shifts the weight farther forward. The rear is lightly loaded, so it's very easy to lock up the rear. Don't use the rear brake in that situation. If you must, straighten up a bit and squeeze on the front brake to bleed off speed, and then continue with the turn.


I thought this too, with the big downhill grade and weight shifted forward, I probably should have gone to front brake vs rear.


Lots of thoughts several are covered above.

Where were you looking while riding this turn you knew so well?

Roads and places we know well, can often cause us to become complacent. You described your complacent attitude on this ride several times in your description. Letting your guard down reduced your ability to ride properly and it bit you.

You knew this corner was sometimes complicated by surface issues yet you allowed it to surprise you with a surface issue...

In almost every instance brakes should be used together. There are exceptions but this was not one of them.

I also suggest learning how to trailbrake. Trailbraking would have more easily allowed you to smoothly reduce your speed a little. Given the surface issues trailbraking might or might not help.

My eyes were looking forward throughout the turns until I was full lock sideways. Even when the first slide happened i didn't stop looking through the turn and when it went full lock I remember following my dad with my eyes for a second before looking to see where my bike was going hit.

I can't say I target fixated, I've done that before, this didn't feel like that :dunno

Definitely was complacent but was at such a slow speed I didn't think I was going to have any issue reacting to the unknown. Figured if there was something to react to I'd have time, and traction to do so.


#1 on trailbraking to learn better. This turn is one that I usually am actually but was taking it slower than normal and didn't feel i need the brakes to complete the turn and was coasting through.

#1 you're ok.

Combination of muddy algae gunk on road surface? Kind of a no win situation.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

Depending on being able to see this road surface condition in advance maybe layoff any turning, accel or braking inputs while passing over the gunk? Not much help if in the middle of a turn and delaying any inputs will send you off the road.

No clue, that's why I'm asking :laughing

For me, I'd say a combination of "turn the bike pussy" and using the front brake vs rear. I might have crossed the dy but I would have kept it up.

Dad made it through, he slid and took it over the dy. He's got 50+ years and a bike that didn't weigh 600+ pounds

You couldn't see the road conditions until you crest the hill into the left. You notice it's wet about the time you are entering the left and then when you transition to the right it went to slick..
 
Last edited:

Cafe Racer

King of this hill
Sorry to hear you crashed.

Im wondering why you were riding with just rear brakes. And if the reason you were only riding with rear brakes was because you didn't want the front to wash out on the slippery surface....?

Then the speed you were riding did not match the conditions.

In almost all conditions, you should be using your fronts over the rears.

Were you not covering the fronts with 1 or 2 fingers? Possibly riding with a full hand on the throttle?
 

i_am_the_koi

Be Here Now
Sorry to hear you crashed.

Im wondering why you were riding with just rear brakes. And if the reason you were only riding with rear brakes was because you didn't want the front to wash out on the slippery surface....?

Then the speed you were riding did not match the conditions.

In almost all conditions, you should be using your fronts over the rears.

Were you not covering the fronts with 1 or 2 fingers? Possibly riding with a full hand on the throttle?


Didn't grab front because it was a reactionary brake, so rather than grab a handful of front I slid on the rear... literally.

I usually am covering the front with two fingers, and was at this point as well. Once I slid the first time I didn't want to grab front at all the second time.
 

tzrider

Write Only User
Staff member
Didn't grab front because it was a reactionary brake, so rather than grab a handful of front I slid on the rear... literally.

I usually am covering the front with two fingers, and was at this point as well. Once I slid the first time I didn't want to grab front at all the second time.

The fact that using the rear is your "reactionary brake" probably tells you something about your braking habits. If you need to shed speed in a hurry, the front will outperform the rear. Unless you're on mud or slime, you'll get some braking and the resulting weight transfer will work in your favor to give you more traction of your braking wheel. Using the rear alone does the opposite.

You probably know this. Just consider what instinctive use of the rear might be telling you about your habits.
 

i_am_the_koi

Be Here Now
The fact that using the rear is your "reactionary brake" probably tells you something about your braking habits. If you need to shed speed in a hurry, the front will outperform the rear. Unless you're on mud or slime, you'll get some braking and the resulting weight transfer will work in your favor to give you more traction of your braking wheel. Using the rear alone does the opposite.

You probably know this. Just consider what instinctive use of the rear might be telling you about your habits.

I've been working on using my front more than my rear since i started riding. I've gotten better about using my front over my rear when I'm riding but when I'm riding lazy, approaching a stop sign out just cruising, I still tend to use rear more.

Always mentally afraid of "grabbing a fist full of brake" in panic situations and going down.
 

Enchanter

Ghost in The Machine
Staff member
The only way to avoid a fist-full of front brake in a panic situation, is to practice proper use every time you ride. If you train yourself to become front brake dominant every time you brake, that will actually lower the chances of you grabbing it in a panic.
 

Alan_Hepburn

Well-known member
Front brake, rear brake - I'm so confused!

I've always used both, but emphasised the front, on my previous bikes. But the GL1500SE that I'm riding now has a system where the rear pedal controls the rear brake and the left front brake, while the front lever controls the right front brake. I've gotten used to using both together - seems to me that by adding some rear brake to the front will give better stopping ability than just the front by itself, considering that my front lever only activates one disc while the rear activates 2 discs...
 

tzrider

Write Only User
Staff member
Front brake, rear brake - I'm so confused!

I've always used both, but emphasised the front, on my previous bikes. But the GL1500SE that I'm riding now has a system where the rear pedal controls the rear brake and the left front brake, while the front lever controls the right front brake. I've gotten used to using both together - seems to me that by adding some rear brake to the front will give better stopping ability than just the front by itself, considering that my front lever only activates one disc while the rear activates 2 discs...

Alan, in theory that would be right. In real world panic stops, most riders have trouble monitoring both brakes.

I've told this story before, but a long while back the Superbike School tested 50 riders, ranging in experience from novice to nationally ranked racers. They had them execute a panic stop in response to a surprise stimulus using both brakes. The rear tire was over inflated so it would lock.

When the rear locked, every single rider let go of both brakes.

One can drill and learn not to do this in controlled conditions but in a true emergency, this tendency emerges.

Koi wasn't in an emergency when this occurred, but he seems to have been in reduced traction conditions. It's likely he could have slowed quicker using the front brake and have been off the brakes by the time he got to where it was slippery. While we can't know for sure, we can say that the bike could be slowed faster with the front than with the rear.

I use both on my sport tourer, as I cannot stoppie the bike. There is always weight on the rear tire. Even so, under hard braking there is less weight. The harder I stop the less rear brake I can safely use.
 

DIY

Well-known member
I've been working on using my front more than my rear since i started riding. I've gotten better about using my front over my rear when I'm riding but when I'm riding lazy, approaching a stop sign out just cruising, I still tend to use rear more.

Always mentally afraid of "grabbing a fist full of brake" in panic situations and going down.


I just wanted to add that I went through a phase where I was worried of "grabbing a fist full of brake" and crashing. This was on my Tuono. I ended up replacing the master cylinder, pads, lines, rear shock, tires, and finally the got the suspension set up for my weight before I felt comfortable again. It was a really stressful time not feeling like I could trust the brakes. If you are mentally afraid when the brakes need to be applied then that's not good. You might be conditioning yourself to emotionally react or freeze up whenever you are hard braking which is exactly when you need to be calm. It was almost lethal for me. YMMV. The other thing I wanted to mention is that I have an ST 1100. It is very similar to your Concourse. Since it is heavy, low, and long the rear brakes are very effective. On my ST braking with both the front and rear is far superior to using only one or the other. Finally, green slime? I am not sure there was anything you could have done but I bet you won't do it again. I ride that rode regularly so thanks for the tip about green slime.
 
Top