100 hour KTM "major engine service"

[KooLaid]

So my 2018 KTM 450 SXF is over the 100 hour mark where the manual calls for a "major engine service" that basically entails a full top and bottom rebuild with new valves/springs, etc. Any one know what this is gonna cost me possibly? I'm thinking it might be trade in time and look for a new 2019 Husqvarna/KTM 300 XCW TPI or possibly the Beta Xtrainer if it's gonna be more than $1000.

 

[elemetal]

Trade in may be a good thing just to switch things up but the KTM intervals are notoriously conservative. Since they badge their stuff as "ready to race" they spec the intervals assuming all hours are hard racing hours. They spec the same 100+ hrs for the 250/300 2t's but guys are getting 400 hrs from the bottom ends.....

Go to KTMtalk and read over some of the threads regarding this then think about how hard you've ridden the bike. 100+ hard SX hours; yeah complete rebuild ($2k?); 100+ hr of trail, track mixed use; probably go much longer without an issue.

 

[KooLaid]

Trade in may be a good thing just to switch things up but the KTM intervals are notoriously conservative. Since they badge their stuff as "ready to race" they spec the intervals assuming all hours are hard racing hours. They spec the same 100+ hrs for the 250/300 2t's but guys are getting 400 hrs from the bottom ends.....

Go to KTMtalk and read over some of the threads regarding this then think about how hard you've ridden the bike. 100+ hard SX hours; yeah complete rebuild ($2k?); 100+ hr of trail, track mixed use; probably go much longer without an issue.

That's a very good point. It's had 50 hours of recreational MX time and then 70 hours of trail riding.

 

[thedub]

Yeah, agree with the above. Unless you are trying to win a national championship, you don't need to do a full rebuild at 100 hrs.

The service schedule for my 350 xcf is the same as the one you posted. "minor engine service" at 50 hrs and "major engine service" at 100 hrs. I just put in a piston at 100 hours. I'll probably do the full top end at 200 hours. Then if I'm still riding the bike after that I'll think about a bottom end.

You'll notice that there are two sections of the service schedule. "Required work" and "Recommended work". My interpretation of that is it's 'recommended' to do the minor at 50 hrs and the major at 100 hrs if you are racing competitively and require top performance and reliability. For the rest of us, in practice, KTM motors are pretty robust for long hours of recreational riding.

Like Elemental said, go on KTMTalk or Thumpertalk and you can read posts all day long from guys who go around 400 hours before needing to rebuild.

 

[banshee01]

The ktm 500exc-f has crazy service schedule like that. This guy did valve adjustments and 2 top ends with 1 bottom end in 91k miles. All preventive maintenance other than blown wheel bearings. I'm sure this bike is not as high strung as yours but it is gonna cost a lot for them to remove the motor and rebuild the bottom end

91k miles on a ktm 500exc around the world! Incredible!
https://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/4934-i-survived-round-the-world-on-a-ktm-500-exc-f

 

[KooLaid]

So my local shop, non-dealer, just quoted me $850 for Piston/Rings and valve clearance check using Pro X aftermarket parts. That the parts alone, Pro X are $250 and oem parts would be $500.

That sounds a wee bit steep. I was thinking it would of been like around $500 using aftermarket parts on this thumper......

I told myself that if it costs $1000 to service then I might as well just buy a new bike. Unfortunately KTM/Husqvarna does not make a wide ratio 450........ I could do it myself but I just don't want to..... maybe I should.

 

[Butch]

I rode my 2001 250 MXC for a really long time without proper maintenance. Like, not even close to recommended shit. Air filter. For like 17 years. Then I cleaned it up and sold it cause I just seem to ride an Alta usually. Jeeze, I think there is a TM or two around here.

Stuff is really good in terms of materials and manufacturing when you are purchasing from reputable sources.

 

[KooLaid]

I'm pretty good with my service. 10 hour oil change/filter, air filter, etc etc. Just not good at piston/ring/rebuild since I didn't realize I'd be over 100 hours so fast! I only put on like 3 hours in one riding day but I guess I've been going out pretty often....until the Coronis hit. Fuck Corona.


Any shop recommendations for the service??

 

[OaklandF4i]

The ktm 500exc-f has crazy service schedule like that. This guy did valve adjustments and 2 top ends with 1 bottom end in 91k miles. All preventive maintenance other than blown wheel bearings. I'm sure this bike is not as high strung as yours but it is gonna cost a lot for them to remove the motor and rebuild the bottom end

91k miles on a ktm 500exc around the world! Incredible!
https://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/4934-i-survived-round-the-world-on-a-ktm-500-exc-f

I've always wondered about those unicorn bikes and had to read about his trip here. I suspect his "top ends" were full rebuild top ends (valves and cylinder) at 870hrs 41k miles, and another with the bottom added at 1325 hours.

Doesn't diminish that bikes feat though. :wow :thumbup

I agree with Luke and Wiles above that actual non racers maintenance intervals can be stretched considerably from the book hours.... but this guys trip is an extreme outlier. :laughing

In the real world, most of the engines I've seen are toasted in a few hundred hours, some sooner.

So my local shop, non-dealer, just quoted me $850 for Piston/Rings and valve clearance check using Pro X aftermarket parts. That the parts alone, Pro X are $250 and oem parts would be $500.

That sounds a wee bit steep. I was thinking it would of been like around $500 using aftermarket parts on this thumper......

I told myself that if it costs $1000 to service then I might as well just buy a new bike. Unfortunately KTM/Husqvarna does not make a wide ratio 450........ I could do it myself but I just don't want to..... maybe I should.

That's actually a VERY good shop price using the ProX parts. Keep in mind, that's assuming your cylinder and everything else is still good which chances are, they will be. And yes, KTM/Husky parts are expensive.

Been helping another Barfer rebuild a couple of modern/new KTM/Husqvarnas and shocked that some OEM parts are twice or more as expensive as a comparable Yamaha Honda for OEM parts. Aftermarket seems the way to go and god forbid you cant rebuild your head/cylinder, crank, or cases... and have to replace with OEM.

 

[thedub]

So my local shop, non-dealer, just quoted me $850 for Piston/Rings and valve clearance check using Pro X aftermarket parts. That the parts alone, Pro X are $250 and oem parts would be $500.

That sounds a wee bit steep. I was thinking it would of been like around $500 using aftermarket parts on this thumper......

I told myself that if it costs $1000 to service then I might as well just buy a new bike. Unfortunately KTM/Husqvarna does not make a wide ratio 450........ I could do it myself but I just don't want to..... maybe I should.

Yeesh. I don't think I would be able to afford this hobby if I didn't do all the work myself.

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/parts/pro-x-dirt-bike-engine?v=2018-ktm-450-sx-f

Pro X Piston Kit - $126.99
Pro X head and base gasket set - $41.05
= $168.04

Valve shims are like 2 bucks each if you need to change any.

 

[OaklandF4i]

Yeesh. I don't think I would be able to afford this hobby if I didn't do all the work myself.

I know, right. :thumbup

I've always wondered if there are book hours to do such and such jobs on motorcycles like there is for cars. If so, I'd be curious what they spec different jobs.

I do know in the Bay Area most shop rates are at or above $100 an hour now, one I know $150+ last time I was in there a few years ago. Knowing that, $600 in labor seems pretty darn good for a full top end and valve adjustment. Plenty would charge more.

 

[thedub]

...Knowing that, $600 in labor seems pretty darn good for a full top end and valve adjustment. Plenty would charge more.

I mean the valve adjustment is pretty much built in; you have to take the cams out to take the head off anyway. It takes like an extra 2 minutes to throw a feeler gauge under them.

 

[OaklandF4i]

I mean the valve adjustment is pretty much built in; you have to take the cams out to take the head off anyway. It takes like an extra 2 minutes to throw a feeler gauge under them.

So how many hours did it take you to do your 500 top end before Baja this year? I know how long it took to do Drews 350. 4-5 hours for a pro seems ok. For the record... it took me longer. :laughing

 

[banshee01]

I've always wondered about those unicorn bikes and had to read about his trip here. I suspect his "top ends" were full rebuild top ends (valves and cylinder) at 870hrs 41k miles, and another with the bottom added at 1325 hours.

Doesn't diminish that bikes feat though. :wow :thumbup

I agree with Luke and Wiles above that actual non racers maintenance intervals can be stretched considerably from the book hours.... but this guys trip is an extreme outlier. :laughing

He said he did do head work during the top end. Well maybe ktm was sponsoring him so he kept the real maint hush hush you are saying? Yeah it would make the trip seem much less if his engine blew up 3 times during. Only he knows the real deal truth.

 

[OaklandF4i]

He said he did do head work during the top end. Well maybe ktm was sponsoring him so he kept the real maint hush hush you are saying? Yeah it would make the trip seem much less if his engine blew up 3 times during. Only he knows the real deal truth.

I'm not saying that, I can't, only he knows. I really don't know how to explain it to be honest. Those are like KLR650 intervals ridden on the street.

1) I'd bet is was a very thorough top end with everything addressed. 2) I suspect based on his routes along with the hours and miles figures provided, the bike saw a really easy life for the majority of those hours/miles where he averaged 47mph over the first engine segment. 3) He certainly went to some tough places, but I suspect during the big travel miles between the bike was really taken care of it... not pushed and possibly in a pretty clean environment like pavement. 4) Not your typical offroad miles.

That still doesn't take away from the feat. Its impressive and I can't explain. I've heard of some 690's making those kind of miles/hours - not offroad. I still wouldn't expect it the way I would use the bike or others I know.

It goes against what I've seen on the inside of mine and other's motors. These are average hobby riders like myself who are anal about maintenance... not a pro racer. Real head scratcher and shows its possible... just not how. Danger is expecting to replicate it by the average rider. I'd still plan and expect a fraction of those hours.

Its a feat and I'd love to have a cocktail or two with him to get more info.

 

[Ride_on]

Rode with a guy Sunday who has a 2015 500 EXC-F. 450 hours and 13K miles. Never had it apart so he figured it was time. Opened it up and he wished he hadn't, everything looked stellar.

 

[thedub]

So how many hours did it take you to do your 500 top end before Baja this year? I know how long it took to do Drews 350. 4-5 hours for a pro seems ok. For the record... it took me longer. :laughing

Are we counting the fact that my new Pro X head gasket leaked straight out of the box so I had to take the whole thing apart a second time to reinstall an OEM head gasket?

But seriously, it probably takes me 4x as long to do anything as a pro working in a shop. Because every part I take off I meticulously clean with brake cleaner and tooth brush. Then I find the section of the factory service manual that pertains to it and measure to see if it's in spec. Then after fumbling around with calipers for a few minutes I realized I don't actually have the capability to accurately measure that part. Then I wonder how much it is to replace so I go find it on the oem parts fiche. Then I wonder if there is an after market option so I search Rocky Mtn for it. Then I go to Thumpertalk and KTMTalk and search for threads to see if people have good or bad experiences with the after market part. Then I get distracted and start browsing my unread threads. Then I check Facebook. Then I search eBay for the cheapest price on more brake cleaner. Then eventually I've wasted an hour and decided that the part is probably fine and doesn't need to be replaced anyway, so I go inside for a snack and another beer before taking the next part off. Meanwhile the professional who's time is money has the entire thing taken apart.

 

[elemetal]

:rofl:rofl:rofl

So true, so true.

 

[OaklandF4i]

@ thedub.... :rofl

 

[KooLaid]

That's actually a VERY good shop price using the ProX parts. Keep in mind, that's assuming your cylinder and everything else is still good which chances are, they will be. And yes, KTM/Husky parts are expensive.

Been helping another Barfer rebuild a couple of modern/new KTM/Husqvarnas and shocked that some OEM parts are twice or more as expensive as a comparable Yamaha Honda for OEM parts. Aftermarket seems the way to go and god forbid you cant rebuild your head/cylinder, crank, or cases... and have to replace with OEM.

I've never actually had to rebuild any motor really, typically I just buy a new one (bike/car/truck/motor/etc) before I have to do any tearing apart, so this is kinda new to me. I read up and folks are talking about ~$500 piston/rings on their KTM so I thought it was steep in comparison. It's not the parts prices that get me, it's the labor lol.

So I called a larger KTM dealer and the service department rep was actually saying it probably doesn't even need to be replaced. Just ride it until it loses power, if it's good power then keep riding. I like this guy. This was the same thing told to me about my Aprilia SXV550 when I asked about a rebuild from my favorite shop........

When my favorite KTM/Ducati/Aprilia dealer (Wilson's Motorcycles) went down the drain after years and years of business..... I lost my trust in shops to work on my things because my "friends" I made through there who worked there, were no longer working at any shop.