08/13/2018 ThunderHill 5 mile

[MarktheShark]

Hello everyone,

Had my second trackday with Fun Track Dayz at Thunderhill 5 mile. I dropped my bike on my 4th session of the day right before lunch. I was having really good sessions before that, kept speeding everything up, was on my fastest lap, all by myself in C group, and came in to turn 1 on the West side (right hander with double apex, leads into the transition to east side) with some good corner speed, let the clutch out a little too quick after double shifting down, unsettled the front end, started getting some wobbles, so I stood it back up and went for the dirt, had a handful of brakes so as soon as it went into the dirt, it went down quickly. Broke some farings, hose from brake res to master cylinder is broken, the front faring stay is tweaked and bent like a mutha fucka (smash allen suggested gerry from GP frames, don't know who that is, but I will look around on barf for him), rear brake lever is bent, and some scratches everywhere. Overall, not a bad crash, and I came out with only bruises and a headache. Anyone know who this gerry/Jerry is?

Got a screenshot here of my Mph data for the lap right before my crash lol

Here are some pics of the worst of the damage...not too bad I think, Considering.

Bent/tweaked front faring stay;

 

[Smash Allen]

You say you were speeding everything up, I think there is a distinction to be made between speeding up your inputs versus speeding up your pace. As your pace speeds up and lap times come down, your inputs start earlier, but not necessarily faster.

Where did you let out the clutch after downshifting? I would imagine that you should be letting out the clutch after each downshift, but if you do two in one, the clutch release needs to be slower than if you did one at a time

 

[Enchanter]

Sorry to hear of your crash.

Are you looking for analysis, or just sharing the event?

 

[MarktheShark]

You say you were speeding everything up, I think there is a distinction to be made between speeding up your inputs versus speeding up your pace. As your pace speeds up and lap times come down, your inputs start earlier, but not necessarily faster.

Where did you let out the clutch after downshifting? I would imagine that you should be letting out the clutch after each downshift, but if you do two in one, the clutch release needs to be slower than if you did one at a time

I did the same thing the lap before, just slightly slower, did two down shifts with no letting out the clutch in between.

 

[MarktheShark]

Sorry to hear of your crash.

Are you looking for analysis, or just sharing the event?

Yes, looking for analysis. I think I know what I did wrong, but would like to see if there's anyone that opens up my eyes to something I didn't realize.

 

[Holeshot]

Where exactly? Chris is hitting on important stuff. What were you looking at when the bike went wonky on ya?

Gerry's a magician. He's on all AFMers contacts list. I almost call him my uncle at this point!

https://www.gpframeandwheel.com/

 

[MarktheShark]

I was looking as far up as i could, basically the exit of the first apex i guess.

 

[MarktheShark]

Hopefully Gerry can sort me out. Already sent him an email

 

[Smash Allen]

Marco, do you think the bike would be more settled if you downshift once before the left at the end of straight, then downshift again before leaning over to the right? If I remember right I give it gas after the left, downshifting once before then would get more power to the ground while also only requiring one downshift before tipping to the right

 

[MarktheShark]

Marco, do you think the bike would be more settled if you downshift once before the left at the end of straight, then downshift again before leaning over to the right? If I remember right I give it gas after the left, downshifting once before then would get more power to the ground while also only requiring one downshift before tipping to the right

I should probably do that, I guess since i'm red lining off the straight before I hit my brakes, I guess I feel like the engine would blow up if I downshifted while braking from redline, but it should be fine since I'm reducing engine speed by braking. I'm just so focused on getting my speed down for that concrete triangle that I forget about downshifting on that turn, that way I would only have one more down shift for the next turn. Seems like the smarter way, I just need to consciously think about it for the end of that straight.

 

[MarktheShark]

got the cowling brace pretty much straight again, ready to rock!

 

[Slow Goat]

Marko, glad you got the fairing stay corrected in-house!

Hope there’s some more replies as I had the same thing happen at my last TD last year. Double downshifted, dumped the clutch and locked the rear, stood up went off track and braked in the dirt. Bucked me off at about 50.



Next bike will have a slipper clutch. Sadly the new 2018 OEM slipper won’t swap into my 2012. Not about to put a 1,000 dollar Yoyodyne in a $4K bike...

 

[MarktheShark]

Marko, glad you got the fairing stay corrected in-house!

Hope there’s some more replies as I had the same thing happen at my last TD last year. Double downshifted, dumped the clutch and locked the rear, stood up went off track and braked in the dirt. Bucked me off at about 50.



Next bike will have a slipper clutch. Sadly the new 2018 OEM slipper won’t swap into my 2012. Not about to put a 1,000 dollar Yoyodyne in a $4K bike...

Couldn't have done it without giving Gerry a call at GP Frame and Wheel. Gave me some really great tips on what tools to use, and using leverage lol.

I hear you on the slipper clutch, But I need to perfect that smooth clutch release, work on my race craft. I need to work on it. So no slipper clutches for me anytime soon.

 

[Holeshot]

You've got a slipper clutch on your left bar. Feathering a clutch is an essential skill, even with a slipper clutch, IME.

 

[ScottRNelson]

I'm curious if you might have been able to ride it out in the dirt and keep from going down. Clearly you want to be light on the front brake at that point. If the dirt is smooth enough there do you think you might have saved it?

 

[MarktheShark]

I'm curious if you might have been able to ride it out in the dirt and keep from going down. Clearly you want to be light on the front brake at that point. If the dirt is smooth enough there do you think you might have saved it?

After reading and hearing multiple similar stories, i'm confident it was the rear end that was getting wobbly on me, it just seemed like the front, since it all happened so quickly. Just wanted to clear that up since I said the front on my original post.

To answer your question, yes, I think I absolutely could have rode it out, had I had the idea of "dirt = no brakes" in my head, all I had to do was let go of the brakes and probably even add a tiny bit throttle to drive my way back on to the track. I had successfully bled off most of my speed when I stood her up and braked hard, I was going about 20/25mph when I hit the dirt, I think it was totally save-able lol I honestly thought I had it, surprised me when it went down, I was already preparing to jump the tiny dirt hill that was in front of me, but I never even got that far.

I'll tell you what, not gonna forget that shit ever again. I will always remember this fall when I think of riding on the dirt lol

 

[afm199]

I should probably do that, I guess since i'm red lining off the straight before I hit my brakes, I guess I feel like the engine would blow up if I downshifted while braking from redline, but it should be fine since I'm reducing engine speed by braking. I'm just so focused on getting my speed down for that concrete triangle that I forget about downshifting on that turn, that way I would only have one more down shift for the next turn. Seems like the smarter way, I just need to consciously think about it for the end of that straight.

As soon as you back off the throttle, your speed drops precipitously on a V twin, as do the rpms. In the many years I rode SVs, I never worried about that scenario. Go to brakes and immediately start downshifting.

 

[tzrider]

I hear you on the slipper clutch, But I need to perfect that smooth clutch release, work on my race craft. I need to work on it. So no slipper clutches for me anytime soon.

Do you know how to blip the throttle on downshifts to match revs? As time goes by, between slipper clutches and auto-blippers, this skill will become unnecessary, but it's important on your current setup.

Also, where were you in relation to your turn point when you let the clutch out after the second shift?

 

[afm199]

Do you know how to blip the throttle on downshifts to match revs? As time goes by, between slipper clutches and auto-blippers, this skill will become unnecessary, but it's important on your current setup.

Also, where were you in relation to your turn point when you let the clutch out after the second shift?

The important question was asked there.