What if the Mayor of your city banned motorcycles

KazMan

2012 Fifty is Nifty Tour!
Staff member
From an article date March 8th from Biker & Bike in the UK ~

As Biker & Bike revealed when the Mayor of London’s Draft Transport Strategy was published, Sadiq Khan and Transport for London are determined to remove private motorcycle use from London’s streets.

Full article here: https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/khan-wants-private-motorcycles-london/

In todays climate of closing businesses, getting folks fired, or banning personal use items, what would you do if they wanted to eliminate use of motorcycles in your city? How could we avoid this happening in your city?
 

two wheel tramp

exploring!
Fuck that! Motorcycles are a great solution to congestion over cars.

I think it comes down to being more active in City government. I attended some SFMTA meetings last year and I think it's important for us to show up. We ride and we vote, yo!
 

budman

General Menace
Staff member
Mayor is high and mighty... :rolleyes

Reminds me of the CA Safety Summit that I attended and Vision Zero leaving motorcycles out of the discussion entirely. I got a little miffed about that and gave my 2 cents about it to all the attendees.

I was glad to see the SFMTA address them. However in their annual report there was not one word about them or their efforts. I wonder where those are at this point?? I have not heard.

The bottom line is a lot of people just do no like motorcycles and given power and opportunity will apply their bigoted view and use their power to exclude them. Mayor Khan is that sort of dude obviously. :thumbdown
 

GAJ

Well-known member
Brilliant considering their utility and small size.

Never mind that in a few years e'bikes will proliferate.
 

Schnellbandit

I see 4 lights!
I'd become an activist and if that didn't work, I'd move.

We're headed to a society where anything can get banned as a solution to any problem and its pretty easy to get a majority to go along with it. Its the: "it doesn't affect me so screw you" thing.

Imo, e-bikes aren't going to create a new wave of buyers of people interested in motorcycling, they are interested in self driving cars amd transportation as pleasure is blase. Just take a look at most people walking down the street on their way to work, school or going any place, do they seem interested in anything other than just getting there? The wave of new buyers for e-bikes migjt come from existing ranks but I fear we're headed to a time when motorcycles become more of something to get rid of than accomodate on public roads.

Can I see individual cities here start to restrict access? Sure, they do it now for vehicles, making certain areas off limits, mass transit only, carve up roads to provide bicycles with dedicated right of way while motorcyclists are increasingly squeezed to share remaining road space where they are seen as non-essential for anyone.

The advent of auto-drive cars will do it and one need only ask how motorcycles are dealt with in the programming of those cars to see the future. They aren't in the equation. Consider how some riders weave in and out of traffic that a car can't do and the auto-drive cars wins out and the motorcycle becomes that variable no one wants around.

Most people will suck it up. When bans come around how successful are the efforts to prevent them? When the majority are convinced the minority loses out, every time.

Maybe doom and gloom but has there been any reason to think it won't end up that way? Using safety as a reason and auto-drive cars and the catalyst, seeing another result is tough.
 

budman

General Menace
Staff member
I consider myself an activist to some degree.. :teeth

Wielding a mighty pen at times..:laughing
 

byke

Well-known member
Not sure what it takes to get a business license over there, but I know if something like that happened here, there'd be BL boom. Always have a few friends that will acknowledge you're on your way to deliver some Ramen or something to them, just in case the coppers get pissy.
 

Schnellbandit

I see 4 lights!
I consider myself an activist to some degree.. :teeth

Wielding a might pen at times..:laughing

I see these billboards all over and with some coin, at least locally, I'd go for naming names, shaming and make the public servant trying to ban bikes so public they couldn't walk into a Costco without the cashiers knowing the size of their underwear.

1. Just kidding.

2. Not really.

The above are two separate paragraphs and two separate thoughts.
 

jwb

Well-known member
This magazine is using the word “ban” to mean “make not exempt from congestion charge” which is not really a recognizable definition of the word. You pay the charge and you can ride into the center city all you want.
 

KazMan

2012 Fifty is Nifty Tour!
Staff member
However, some could consider a ban in some manner a good thing. I posted this as it made me think about many examples of all of us trying to positively promote motorcycles one way or the other.

We as a community talk about gear, technique, schools and drills, and we seem to all be right and yet all seem to be disconnected a bit. Maybe it's time we all start getting on the same page and message about the benefits of motorcycling such as:
  • carbon footprint
  • fuel economy
  • reduced traffic
  • minimizing time spent on road during commute and health benefits

And this may not even be the list, but if we become activists, a list that allows non-motorcyclists to think about motorcyclists in a manner that we are a positive influence in their daily lives. Perhaps something that is subliminal like this piece of brilliance which similate us to Ryan Reynolds? :dunno :teeth



youtu.be/uRu5dxE5q8Y
 

Schnellbandit

I see 4 lights!
^^^ in a data driven world, almost none of that can be supported. Many cars get fuel economy as good as or better than lots of motorcycles. A bike doesn't reduce congestion that much, there aren't enough bikes out there during times it would make a significant difference and the health benefits are questionable when after lane splitting became explicitly legal, crash rates increased, at least in some aspects.

The independance motorcycling has as part of the activity also means we are more like cats than dogs when it comes to organizing.

What is needed IMHO is a national spokesperson, someone who is a take no prisoners type to push a collective agenda. Anything less than that leaves motorcycling to a divide and defeat scenario.

Without trying to turn this into something else, where is the national voice for motorcycling interests? Where is the national voice for the NRA? On TV, on the radio, on the internet and now with an Internet channel.

Why not for motorcycling or are we going to hope the Geico gecko and Progessive gal on her V-Twin come to the rescue?
 

jwb

Well-known member
The article is about the UK but I guess you are talking about a "national voice" for USA motorcyclists? Considering how much more advanced London's congestion pricing regime is than anything contemplated in an American city, I don't think you need to worry about this particular scenario quite yet.

In any case I'm sure a "national voice" for US motorcyclists is absurd and impossible. What would unify us? I'm a motorcyclist and that's a strong part of my self image but I don't want to be associated with straight-pipe-riding dipshits. Same reason I own firearms but wouldn't dream of supporting the NRA.
 

KazMan

2012 Fifty is Nifty Tour!
Staff member
Well Schnell, if you take what you have written, and what I put in bullets, I would say we are saying the same thing for the most part.

Exception is you are looking for someone to be "that" person, and I am suggesting that "we" need to be that person until one is found. Or you are correct, as mentioned in my post above in the second paragraph, we are the divide and defeat.

Some could/would argue exactly some of your opinions, but if more folks started riding, which is what we want and manufacturers are trying to figure out, then collectively with increased ridership we would make an impact on current traffic numbers.

And because I don't know your mileage in the saddle, I can say for myself that the last 4 years of commuting every day by motorcycle, I will say that rain or shine, I am much happier riding my motorcycle after a commute than I could ever be driving my car.

jwb - I would offer keeping a close eye on San Francisco. The City has plans for zero carbon footprint...
 
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Schnellbandit

I see 4 lights!
Maybe I should clarify just a bit and in retrospect say that a national voice need not be only one individual but perhaps a national direction for which has the ability to set forth that direction with one voice.

I get it, there are motorcyclists which will never see eye to eye in their style of riding, their behviours and such but think about something a simple as lane splitting or lane sharing. In the time it has taken California to get with it, many states, like it or not have legalized cannabis. They did that through highly coordinated efforts even though the results were state by state but anyone thinking those were individual efforts supported and funded by the people of those states is badly mistaken, there is a national movement to get that done. The plain fact is that motorcyclist can easily travel across a state line within a few hours and what you can and can't do while riding changes dramatically, unlike a car where very few rules change. Sure, some of the rules of the road change but then they change for everyone including motorcycles. Lane sharing isn't a motorcycle only rule as it also places upon the drivers of other vehicles certain responsilities.

As for the comparison to another country or city in another country and saying their problems with congestion are far worse or different I say head to southern California and tell me that the congestion there isn't horrendous and that in California and other states the models for restrictions upon certain groups don't have theor origins elsewhere, they do. How often have we heard that it won't happen and then sure enough, it does?

Within 5 years, we'll be smog testing motorcycles and the EU is a model for it and we have the means right here. Other states have safety checks already and while I am not in any way adovcating against either here, as motorcyclists we have no real say in that either.

The risks to national efforts is high but at some point, as we'll all find out, IMHO, a failure to secure a national platform will be to our deteriment and the thing about saying adverse things won't happen is that once they do, those saying it wouldn't happen seem to disappear into the crowd hoping to return to better times.

This idea I speak about is probably considered a significant deviation from the just wait and see or go along philosophies but as motorcycling has taken a back step in advocating for itself, the money, power and influence behind the evolution in the primary road user, the car, have coalesced behind national exposure and there is zero interest in motorcycles.

There is a reason why so few rules of the road consider motorcycles, realtively speaking and it isn't because cars make up the most use of the roads, we have proven that minority groups often get an entire nation to change, it is because we as a group are so quick to divide ourselves and fail to see the end of the tunnel, and for motorcycles there is no light there.

Just my opinion though and I understand and accept few if any will agree.
 

KazMan

2012 Fifty is Nifty Tour!
Staff member
So as motorcyclists, we do have a National voice. It's the American Motorcyclist Association of which BARF is a part of as the first online charter group. The AMA is a National group and is involved within the political system.

So this brings me back to how do we as a community unify when here in just this community, we have active advocates for LaneSplitting in which a dozen or so folks manage to get up to Sacramento for each meeting and actually, that number may be increasing despite that room being packed last time. There are several in the LaneSplitting group that are now getting contacted by other States for consultation purposes.

We have a member who is very active on the OHV side of things, we have many members who are part of the States motorcycle training programs as instructors or part of public promotions safety events. Members who provide technical instruction for dirt riding, closed circuit asphalt course, introduction to group rides and many other contributions for this lifestyle.

So maybe we push to get folks to become members of the AMA which represents almost every genre of motorcyclist, that's one part of the solution perhaps. A unified voice for the lifestyle at a political level.

But I truly believe that all of us, despite whatever type of motorcycle we ride, can find several tag lines we all agree with, despite throwing Ride Your Own Ride at each other.

So first step for your National voice is - http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/

Second step is ?_________________?
 

bikewanker

Well-known member
Club me

I'm thinking maybe we could try something like have an event that 2 or 3 dozen motorcyclists ride to and over the few days of the event set aside an hour for a "convention" on Autonomous Vehicles and Motorcyclist Safety. Pick an accessible central valley town or maybe northwestern California and use the above as a secondary theme. I'm not up on the internet but hear there are social net work sites that like this stuff, maybe even find a newspaper and promote 1 idea repeatedly beating the drum to recognition.
I'm not interested in riding with all of you unless it benefits me! And I found riding to Sacramento and meeting up with " those riders I choose not to associate with " was very beneficial to all motorcyclists.
Divide and conquer.
AMA good, Abate good and BARF is the best.
 
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