What about... whataboutism?

[bruceflinch]

Forgive me.:afm199

:wtf whataboutism

It was brought up in another thread. Whatdafuckism?

Wtf are we talking about?

 

[Reli]

It's an attempt to minimize the importance of a topic by saying "Well, what about what THESE people did?"

It was a classic diversion technique used by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Trying to minimize American criticism of their human rights abuses by saying stuff like "Well what about black Americans getting arrested more often than whites? What about homeless people living on American streets?"

It's an attempt to make two problems seem equally bad, when that's not true at all.

 

[budman]

Politics is not in the sink.
Mod warning on that so please don't.

 

[Brokenlink]

Politics aside, there are certain people that will use this method no matter the topic.

Want to post a thread about dildos?

What about men who wear white pants?

Want to post about white pants?

What about dildos?

It's used to steer the conversation against the topic and derail a thread for no other reason than because you can.

Some people tend to do it in nearly every thread and then pretend they aren't doing it on purpose.

Other people have been suspended for doing it on purpose in order to demonstrate the tactic.

Hell, take a look at the shitshow that was the Pharmacy opiate thread for a perfect example.

 

[bruceflinch]

It's an attempt to minimize the importance of a topic by saying "Well, what about what THESE people did?"

It was a classic diversion technique used by the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Trying to minimize American criticism of their human rights abuses by saying stuff like "Well what about black Americans getting arrested more often than whites? What about homeless people living on American streets?"

It's an attempt to make two problems seem equally bad, when that's not true at all.

I see. So many issues we have today all seem to blend/be tied together. Guess I never realized it was a technique. I just thought it showed how difficult it is to solve one issue without affecting another.. :laughing

Politics is not in the sink.
Mod warning on that so please don't.

:thumbup

 

[Junkie]

I see. So many issues we have today all seem to blend/be tied together. Guess I never realized it was a technique. I just thought it showed how difficult it is to solve one issue without affecting another.. :laughing


:thumbup

accusing people of it is also a popular technique to avoid discussing issues

 

[Brokenlink]

accusing people of it is also a popular technique to avoid discussing issues

Whatabout that time you accused me of being ugly? Who is to decide who is ugly or not?

There are computer algorithms that can show what an ugly person is and what an attractive person is. But last I checked, you weren't a computer. So how can you say that I am ugly?

 

[mean dad]

accusing people of it is also a popular technique to avoid discussing issues

Can you show any examples of someone introducing an original topic for conversation, and being immediately accused of whataboutism so that the issue can be avoided?

Seems more like the accusation is made after the topic has been diverted but I'd like to see your POV.

 

[byke]

I don't think it's much of a problem. Someone talks about doctors prescribing drugs and someone says whataboutbooze and it takes two seconds to make the point about the enormous difference between their duties and responsibilities. I get that there's often ill intent in whataboutism, but I'm not sure it really matters, though maybe tiresome when it's repetitive.

 

[Karbon]

It's can be useful when checking for checking internal consistency of an argument, but typically it's employed to marginalize the talking points by sneaking in low-key false equivalencies.

 

[Mike95060]

I don't think it's much of a problem. Someone talks about doctors prescribing drugs and someone says whataboutbooze and it takes two seconds to make the point about the enormous difference between their duties and responsibilities. I get that there's often ill intent in whataboutism, but I'm not sure it really matters, though maybe tiresome when it's repetitive.

I think it is a harmful tactic when it is done in bad faith. Bad faith can be hard to discern, especially online.

 

[byke]

Exactly, which is why it doesn't really matter, imo. Plus, the figurative 'you' should be able to deal with whatever the question is. If you can't, your position may not be on solid footing. The drug/alcohol thing was super easy and obvious, so I don't know why it created a stir.

 

[Mike95060]

Exactly, which is why it doesn't really matter, imo. Plus, the figurative 'you' should be able to deal with whatever the question is. If you can't, your position may not be on solid footing. The drug/alcohol thing was super easy and obvious, so I don't know why it created a stir.

Fair enough. However patterns should give us insight into motives I think.

 

[byke]

I categorize whataboutism with "changing your mind" or "echo chamber" or even "victim blaming". They're just dismissive catchphrases which attempt to avoid discussing anything.

 

[Mike95060]

I categorize whataboutism with "changing your mind" or "echo chamber" or even "victim blaming". They're just dismissive catchphrases which attempt to avoid discussing anything.

But they are not necessarily dismissive. They can be. They can also be accurate descriptions of bad faith tactics. Again we are back to the difficulty of discriminating online communications. Anywho, I don't want to go in circles with ya homie. ort

 

[byke]

No U!

 

[Mike95060]

No U!

Penis.

 

[tuxumino]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whataboutism-origin-meaning

The tactic behind whataboutism has been around for a long time. Rhetoricians generally consider it to be a form of tu quoque, which means "you too" in Latin and involves charging your accuser with whatever it is you've just been accused of rather than refuting the truth of the accusation made against you. Tu quoque is considered to be a logical fallacy, because whether or not the original accuser is likewise guilty of an offense has no bearing on the truth value of the original accusation

 

[UDRider]

Starts with some provacotive what about as a hook, then leads to a rabbit hole that has nothing to do with the thread.

 

[jdhu]

My view only (duh), but it's one of those terms that seems overused, and a retort when you don't have much else (same as "quit trolling, stop being obtuse, you must be blind if..." etc.).

There's nothing wrong with making a comparison or analogy. I get that comparisons can be made in "bad faith," to distract, threadjack into tangents, etc. But, for example, the threads about whether extreme "left" or "right" is more violent, I see "whataboutism" thrown out way too much and used in a way to try to stop discussion.