Really really frozen motor!

Dogfeathers

Dogfeathers

Well-known member
I was given a old single cylinder Ducati motor that was left outside for about twenty + years. Thinking that just a dose of ingenuity, patience, some anti corrosion juice, a block of wood and a few firm hammer blows would get things to loosen up.
Well things did not go as planned and with the additional application of a firm tone of voice, a larger hammer, (small sledge hammer actually) more muscle and threats of extreme violence have not advanced the situation at all.
The spark plug was in place during its abandonment, but the engine breather was left open to sun, rain, condensation, bugs, dirt and wind. The engine head and cylinder are held in place by four long bolts about 10” long that thread into the cases. Three came out with a fight but one twisted off. A longer fight got the head off, but the cylinder is firmly stuck to the piston and no movement at all on that front. The piston is off TDC and below the cylinder top by about a inch and a quarter so the cylinder will raise off of the crankcase about 1/2” so that means the big end of the crank is sorta free so I might be able to split the cases.
I let anti corrosion fluid sit and soak on top of the piston for a few days and go out and whack the piston top with a hardwood block and humongous hammer every three or four days with no movement at all.
I have tried heating the cylinder till water boils when I sprinkle it and smacking the piston and so far, no movement of the piston at all.
Short of getting really aggressive and either collapsing the piston by drilling it full of holes or using a angle grinder and cutting the cylinder off of the piston, what other methods will get that piston/cylinder to move.
I am willing to sacrifice the cylinder and piston as they are corroded to oblivion, but I would like to salvage the crankshaft/rod, cases and tranny.
Suggestion/ideas welcome.
 
M

motomania2007

TC/MSF/CMSP/ Instructor
I had a similar exercise with my '72 Kawasaki S2 in 1977. I used heat, penetrating oil and a large, hardwood block and a deadblow hammer. It took a long time but I got it loose.

When the cylinders came off, I had to replace the pistons, rings and bore the cylinders but I did all that and got it running a couple of months later.

My father and I discussed how to go forward it the wood block and deadblow did not work and it was going to be breaking the pistons up with a chisel or a punch or drilling it out to free the connecting rods. We already knew the cylinders were going to be bored out.

Luckily we did not go the destructive route but you may be stuck with that option...
 
auntiebling

auntiebling

megalomaniacal troglodyte
Staff member
I'm gathering that there is a little room for liquid to sit on top of the piston now, so try some acid to attack the rust. Vinegar is a good first pass. Let it sit for a few hours, smackey whackey, rinse repeat

I also wonder if electrolysis might be applicable, but I think putting aluminum in an electrolysis process does bad things. Will investigate tomorrow
 
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Dogfeathers

Dogfeathers

Well-known member
The piston is below the top of the cylinder over an inch and I let a mixture of acetone and ATF sit there a few days. The level does not go down at all. I will try the vinegar method and whack it some more. Thanks for the ideas.
 
J

JimE

Rider
Adapt a harmonic balancer puller (or other handy gear puller) to the head bolts/studs and use something like a plate or block to distribute the force across the top of the piston. Apply pressure and continue to let sit in oil. Use a torch to heat until the oil starts to smoke then let cool. Apply more pressure with the puller. Repeat process. You'll get there....
 
auntiebling

auntiebling

megalomaniacal troglodyte
Staff member
i've been doing a little reading and i wouldn't try the electrolysis as it'll probably just eat away the aluminum. i found a reference to using citric acid, which is probably in the same ballpark as vinegar which all depends how concentrated it is anyway. chemistry class was decades ago.

anyhoo, i reread your initial post as well. if you heat the assembly up and put the ATF/acetone mix onto the warm parts it might pull the mix farther into the gunked up areas. do it outside of course and have some kind of fire extinguishing plan ready, and probably someone ready to call EMS because heat + acetone can be a wild ride!
 
B

bobl

Well-known member
The best penetrant I've found is a product called "kroil". It's pricey at about 20 dollars a can, but works well. Good luck, and keep us posted, as some of us play with junk.
 
bcj

bcj

Spagthorpe RA
If the piston rod isn't critical, a hacksaw through that would get the head detached.
Then a hydraulic press might shift the piston.
 
auntiebling

auntiebling

megalomaniacal troglodyte
Staff member
bobl said:
The best penetrant I've found is a product called "kroil". It's pricey at about 20 dollars a can, but works well. Good luck, and keep us posted, as some of us play with junk.
Click to expand...

50/50 acetone and atf mix is homebrew version of kroil-ish. there are quite a few threads about it out on the internet.
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
Buy some Hydrochloric Acid and let it soak. It'll eat the rust and any steel. The steel doesnt matter since you cant salvage the cylinder anyways.
 
wheel_muse

wheel_muse

bicycles 'n motos
In our bicycle shop, we were gifted a can of Kroil...the best! Better than Coca Cola.

Destructive techniques aside, a combination of penetrant, pressure, vibration and time usually WIN. Good luck! :thumbup
 
haybaler

haybaler

Mechanical
"...willing to sacrifice the cylinder and piston as they are corroded to oblivion, but I would like to salvage the crankshaft/rod, cases and tranny."
..."collapsing the piston by drilling it full of holes..."

revised: collapse piston by busting it up, drill 1/4" holes near outside edge nearest rings.
 
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Dogfeathers

Dogfeathers

Well-known member
I tried Kroil before the home made acetone /ATF combo. Kroil usually is very good stuff but it not work this time, ..nothing else has yet either though.
Haybaler, I do not get what you are trying to explain. The piston is sunk in the cylinder, I have no access to it on its sides or bottom, only the top. I don't get what you think I can cut without ruining the cylinder...which is okay anyway. I have the dreaded "Pacbell account" so cannot post pictures.

BCJ.... I do not have access to the rod yet as the bottom of the cylinder only rises above the cases about a half inch and the sleeve still obscures the rod. Really would like to save that anyway to later salvage the crank and rod as a unit. It is not a two piece rod so hacking it off kinda makes the crankshaft a waste. I am trying to save what "good parts" are left as best I can. When I get in there it may be junk anyways, but cutting the rod in two before I know that is kinda defeating my purpose.

Another method that I tried and may try again is I have a pneumatic riveting gun that bangs/vibrates the heck out of what it comes in contact with. Did not work the first time but am likely to try it again. Keep those ideas coming guys! TIA
 
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ratsblast

ratsblast

Well-known member
I hear lighting a fire in the cylinder and get the fucker smoking smoking hot, paint peeling smoking hot. Then beat the piston out. I would start out with a propane or oxy/acc torch and roast that mother fucker till it smokes, the cylinder/piston is a huge heat sink don't be shy with the heat. Have fun don't burn the house down.
 
berth

berth

Well-known member
ratsblast said:
I hear lighting a fire in the cylinder and get the fucker smoking smoking hot, paint peeling smoking hot. Then beat the piston out. I would start out with a propane or oxy/acc torch and roast that mother fucker till it smokes, the cylinder/piston is a huge heat sink don't be shy with the heat. Have fun don't burn the house down.
Click to expand...

...don't blow yourself up.
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
Id think a good hammer blow would break the ring and free up the piston. I bet the crank or rod are frozen as well - meaning they may not be salvageable.
 
Dogfeathers

Dogfeathers

Well-known member
Thanks for the fresh ideas guys.
Scootergmc: Your link had a lot of good ideas. Very windy and cold here today so no building any fires. Might put this on the back burner till after the holidays. Meanwhile will let more anti corrosion fluids just soak and do their thing and go give it an occasional whack with a small sledge. I have a oxy/acetylene torch so I can get that puppy plenty hot. Will keep you posted on any progress ....when I make any!
 
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