Radio broadcast during race weekends

[Ozymandias]

I'm hoping some AFM Board members or Berto can help answer some questions on this one but other input is always welcome. :thumbup

At round 3 we were in an odd spot and it was difficult to hear. I recalled that at one time the AFM had a radio transmission so I picked up a cheap radio and when we asked what the frequency was we were told that the FCC told the AFM to stop broadcasting.

This isn't the first time I've had issues hearing the PA calls because of where I've found myself pitted so I would love to help sort something like this out. I did a little digging and the FCC does allow transmission but the range is limited.

Had the AFM been using a high powered transmitter or something? With some digging I found several places that sell equipment low powered enough to right at the limits of what the FCC requires for non-licensed broadcast but I would need to dig a little more to see if repeaters can be used or what.

Is this something the AFM would be interested in taking up if I could get all the questions sorted out and make sure we're in the green with the FCC?

Thanks!

 

[Moose]

It's not the AFM that provides this service. It is the tracks own equipment that handles the PA system and local band radio transmission of the announcer feed. At Sonoma and B-Weezle it is operative, at T-hell it has been out of service for a while now. All tracks AFM use have the gear for localized AM/FM band transmission, but not all of them keep it working

One solution for you would be to monitor the live stream AFM does on a smartphone or tablet. The live video/audio stream AFM sends out has about a 20 second latency lag from real time which is close enough, important thing is it runs at all race weekends and is available anywhere in the paddock where you have a 3G or 4G phone signal.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/afm-racing-live

 

[Ozymandias]

Part of the problem has been the delay was a bit much to make the calls from where are and sadly my phone doesn't get a reliable signal at t-hill anyway.

Good to know that it works at Sonoma. What about Buttonwillow? Maybe I can reach out directly to t-hill directly and show there's an interest to have that as a functional system for racing and trackdays.

 

[Moose]

It also works at Buttonwillow, only T-hill is not working

 

[Ozymandias]

Hmmm

Maybe as a collective whole and with the strength of the AFM can politely ask that they repair their system so we can actually hear? :teeth

For that matter if there's car things going on there, I might want to hear that in my car while I'm (not) winning! :laughing

 

[EastBayDave]

FCC rules say you can operate a "free" AM/FM transmission at the bottom or top of each band as long as it's low power, non-commercial, & doesn't interfere w/commercial stations that are paying for band usage.

It would be quite easy to put up an antenna/transmitter at any of these events. Low power should be enough to cover any track size...

EDIT: Heck I got an FM antenna that I'll donate to the cause if needed...

:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup

 

[Moose]

FCC rules say you can operate a "free" AM/FM transmission at the bottom or top of each band as long as it's low power, non-commercial, & doesn't interfere w/commercial stations that are paying for band usage.

It would be quite easy to put up an antenna/transmitter at any of these events. Low power should be enough to cover any track size...

EDIT: Heck I got an FM antenna that I'll donate to the cause if needed...

:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup

The problem at T-hill is getting an audio tap from their PA. Anything that couples with their system ground will cause the communications headset system used by turn workers and race control to squeal. I have tried several options of transformer isolation and ground lifting to no avail in my attempts to get a clean PA feed from them for the live stream broadcasts. Nothing has worked so I have always had to use a separate microphone taped to the house mic with foam insulation between them for Vik to announce through. My testing has shown that their PA system has a couple volts floating on their ground side and sinking this voltage through accessory equipment is what causes the comm system to squeal. Basically their system is FUBAR electrically but works as is. When I pointed this issue out to the GM at the track he expressed no interest in dealing with this and they are not open to anyone outside their tech department doing anything at all related to their gear

The radio broadcast systems work fine at Sonoma and Button Weasel so it's only T-hell rounds that have this issue

 

[EastBayDave]

The problem at T-hill is getting an audio tap from their PA. Anything that couples with their system ground will cause the communications headset system used by turn workers and race control to squeal. I have tried several options of transformer isolation and ground lifting to no avail in my attempts to get a clean PA feed from them for the live stream broadcasts. Nothing has worked so I have always had to use a separate microphone taped to the house mic with foam insulation between them for Vik to announce through. My testing has shown that their PA system has a couple volts floating on their ground side and sinking this voltage through accessory equipment is what causes the comm system to squeal. Basically their system is FUBAR electrically but works as is. When I pointed this issue out to the GM at the track he expressed no interest in dealing with this and they are not open to anyone outside their tech department doing anything at all related to their gear

The radio broadcast systems work fine at Sonoma and Button Weasel so it's only T-hell rounds that have this issue

Oh I c. Wasn't aware of the feedback issue. Sounds like you have already done what you can; as long as there track management interferes I don't know how you can fix.

Perhaps a delay & the use of a "real" *Marti remote broadcast AF/FM radio system piggy backed on some real local broadcast signal might be the way to go, that way everyone can listen on their car radios, & the signal is much stronger? Donno....I walked away from a broadcasting career in the eighties...

* http://www.bdcast.com/products/audio-data-links/marti/stl-studio-transmitter-links

 

[Ozymandias]

Well that certainly does suck.

I don't really know much about the tech to make it happen, but I'm certainly open to trying to start a donation drive or something to get a "pluggable" type system for the AFM to have for themselves on race weekends if that's a way to get around t-hill's lack of concern for customer service and free help. :laughing

I saw a few systems that could transmit up to a mile for around $2k or less. I would think the surrounding hills would probably keep most of the signal confined to the track/pit area but I'm certainly no expert in this kind of broadcasting.

 

[Moose]

Well that certainly does suck.

I don't really know much about the tech to make it happen, but I'm certainly open to trying to start a donation drive or something to get a "pluggable" type system for the AFM to have for themselves on race weekends if that's a way to get around t-hill's lack of concern for customer service and free help. :laughing

I saw a few systems that could transmit up to a mile for around $2k or less. I would think the surrounding hills would probably keep most of the signal confined to the track/pit area but I'm certainly no expert in this kind of broadcasting.

It's probably not gonna happen unless the track fixes their FM transmitter system. I don't see AFM buying a system for this when the tracks are supposed to provide it. And even if AFM did get a FM transmitter system, as I said earlier, getting an audio tap to feed the AFM owned transmission system is a problem too at T-hill.

In this case it a huge "easier said than done" situation and I don't see it getting resolved by any means other than the track fixing their gear (specifically their non-functioning radio transmitter)

 

[EastBayDave]

go on ebay or some used broadcast equipment site (I know there are several) & find a used Marti. That's what we did for KITS "Live-105." We needed one repeatily to do the "Alex Bennett Show," & had to quit borrowing from KPIX. Found a used one & it was still there when I left; worked great.

The trick is, to get some local radio station to "carry" the signal on one of their "extra" channels so they can continue happily broadcasting their own signal, w/the racing signal on one of the piggyback "extra" channels almost all broadcasters have on the extra channels in the Studio/Transmitter link signal, which all stations use to sent transmitter control signals.

Then you just receive it on a car/hand radio....win win.:thumbup

 

[eeeeek]

I have the solution: You know how they announce what round it is in a boxing match?

 

[EastBayDave]

Spoke briefly to my CE riding buddy/lifetime friend, & he said this in e-mail:

Sounds like an isolation issue. Large racetrack PA systems have miles and miles of wiring and can be rather temperamental. If I were them, I might try one of these…:

This gadget has worked for us at many large outdoor venues where we have had similar issues, including Sonoma Raceway, Levi’s Stadium and AT&T park.

He sent details on a gadget made for this kind of thing:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...um_Killer_Transformer.html/c/product/#inpage:

FYI, he & other friends are working @ Kxxx (real callsign altered f/privacy), doing broadcasts for Giants, 49ers, etc. at the above mentioned facilities. Might be worth a try? It's cheap.....:thumbup

ebd

 

[Moose]

Spoke briefly to my CE riding buddy/lifetime friend, & he said this in e-mail:


He sent details on a gadget made for this kind of thing:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...um_Killer_Transformer.html/c/product/#inpage:

FYI, he & other friends are working @ Kxxx (real callsign altered f/privacy), doing broadcasts for Giants, 49ers, etc. at the above mentioned facilities. Might be worth a try? It's cheap.....:thumbup

ebd

It IS an isolation issue, there is voltage floating on their ground path. If you plug anything else in that grounds the audio shield the comm system squeals. I tried Isolation transformers, it did not fix the issue, also tried lifting all the grounds on my end, no go. FWIW, I am an audio and video engineer and know very well how this stuff works

The track management won't let me troubleshoot their system and isolation transformers and ground lifts don't fix the issue so it is a dead end at T-hill for doing anything with external hookups to them. They either fix their FM transmission system or we do without radio broadcasts of announce, pretty much the end of the story here

 

[EastBayDave]

It IS an isolation issue, there is voltage floating on their ground path. If you plug anything else in that grounds the audio shield the comm system squeals. I tried Isolation transformers, it did not fix the issue, also tried lifting all the grounds on my end, no go. FWIW, I am an audio and video engineer and know very well how this stuff works

The track management won't let me troubleshoot their system and isolation transformers and ground lifts don't fix the issue so it is a dead end at T-hill for doing anything with external hookups to them. They either fix their FM transmission system or we do without radio broadcasts of announce, pretty much the end of the story here

That's a shame man. Funny, you'd think if they can get a stadium/Sears Point to work w/one of these... I'm just trying to help man = I just knew this guy who's been in broadcasting (radio/tv) since early 80's....

Oh well...I left that industry the day of my graduating college w/an EE in Electrical Engineering. IT was the way to go for $$$ at that time (I was getting $8hr as a ACE), so I went a different direction forever....I still wonder about that decision...old/retired now so that's that...

Well good luck, just trying to help...

ebd

 

[eeeeek]

Funny thing about the attempts to make things work at Thill. They sometimes resulted in voltage going through my hand when I would grab the mic.

 

[frozenuts]

Funny thing about the attempts to make things work at Thill. They sometimes resulted in voltage going through my hand when I would grab the mic.

Proving that you are a well grounded individual.

 

[EastBayDave]

Proving that you are a well grounded individual.

better not ride in a thunderstrom.....:wow

 

[Moose]

That's a shame man. Funny, you'd think if they can get a stadium/Sears Point to work w/one of these... I'm just trying to help man = I just knew this guy who's been in broadcasting (radio/tv) since early 80's....

Oh well...I left that industry the day of my graduating college w/an EE in Electrical Engineering. IT was the way to go for $$$ at that time (I was getting $8hr as a ACE), so I went a different direction forever....I still wonder about that decision...old/retired now so that's that...

Well good luck, just trying to help...

ebd

The issue here with fixing the voltage on ground problem is that no one is allowed to touch track gear PA system at T-hill because it works as is when nothing else is plugged in so they do not consider it broken. You can't touch their hookups to fix things and they won't fix anything because they think its fine if it works as is, catch-22 system.

I could easily fix this if they would give me some time with the system and access to the main amp rack, but nope, no one but their GM and tech guy are allowed go into their wiring.

And as far as the FM transmission thing goes at T-hill, easiest to do here is for AFM to lean on them to fix the FM radio system they already have that is broken and that's where this whole thread started.

The reason the other facilities you mentioned have no issues interfacing with the broadcast world is that they do interface with the world on a regular basis at NASCAR, MotoGP/WSB and Major League Baseball level, so they have sharp AV and IT folks on staff and their systems have long been vetted and tweaked for connectivity with the world. When there are issues, which sometimes there will be, these tracks are responsive and their tech guys work with you to fix the issue, not tell you there isn't a problem.

BTW, I am turning down 3 days of very well paid video engineering work at a large event at PacBell Park next weekend just so I can be at T-hill to do AFM's round 4 live streaming.

Lets face it, T-Hill and B-Weezle are not tier one venues, Laguna, Sonoma and PacBell Park are, apples to oranges. This is why this is an issue in the 1st place.

BTW, BTW, B-Weezle management are very reasonable, they accommodate and let us patch and touch their racks and IT systems and their FM transmitter system works very well.

Same for Sonoma, Blake their lead tech is a very good AV guy, he always goes the distance to make anything you need from the house system work perfectly for you.

And yes, I use isolation transformer systems at both of these tracks to eliminate hum and noise from ground coupling when I get the direct audio taps from their systems for the live broadcast. This has been attempted at T-hill to no avail, judicious ground lifting was also tested, nothing does it.

I get problem free direct audio feeds from B-Wiz and Sonoma, I have to tape a mic to the other mic Vik uses at T-hill and he still gets shocked when he touches both mics (See below, sorry Vik). I rest my case.

Funny thing about the attempts to make things work at Thill. They sometimes resulted in voltage going through my hand when I would grab the mic.

Remember Vik, you gonna hafta wear gloves or keep hands very dry and especially don't ever touch both mics with wet lips LOL

But seriously, I have measured it, it's only about 5-6 volts floating on their sound system ground plane so it won't hurt ya. If you sink this voltage fully to ground through your shield, the comm system oscillates and squeals. Running without any AC grounding at all would be dangerous for anyone touching this ground plane if anything ever faulted in the high voltage system at either end so you don't do that, ever! As it is now, this is just a nuisance level voltage, not a dangerous level. Something is amiss somewhere in the T-hill system and needs to be fixed, see above LOL

 

[Ozymandias]

Yup, I would LOVE for the AFM to start putting a bit of a lean on T-hill to fix it. I mean, it can't be THAT expensive. And if there are people with the expertise willing to volunteer their time to fix it it just seems stupid to not take care of it when it's being asked for. But then I've always been a customer service oriented kind of fella. :laughing