Quote Question

[norcalkeith]

Rear wheel swap - rotor swap included. Call dealership for quote.

"50 bucks for the rear wheel swap, plus more for however long it takes us to get the torx bolts off/out (off the rotor), cause those things can be tough - they might require heating up to remove them..."

I asked how much longer "more" could be/max time - tech tried to explain that 'book time' wasn't appropriate, due to it being a variable situation, could go either way.

Normal? (Specifically talking about the "plus more for however long it takes us...") I thought a quote was a quote, and that if the techs 'beat' the book time - extra $ in the dealerships pockets; if the techs take longer? The dealership eats the extra time - and that business depends on an equilibrium of those two scenarios.....correct or no?

The tech on the phone made me feel like a jackass for trying to get a solid quote, "Look, I don't know why you're asking about book times....this is a 15/20 minute thing....may be 15/20 minutes more if a bolt gets stuck/we have to heat it up...I'm not gonna overcharge you.....we don't do that here...."

Well what happens if you break a bolt off and have to replace it? (Which is something another dealership explained can happen on these fucker R6 3/4'' rotor torx bolts...) That's why I'm asking these questions.

Was I being a jackass?

Edit: Called another dealer - $60, rotor included, regardless of extra time. Is it so wrong that that is what I was expecting from the first place?

edited again: removed sand

 

[auntiebling]

shop needs to work on their bedside manner, so to speak.

 

[Burning1]

Shop rates tend to be very pricey... But yes, at their rates getting the rotor bolts out could easily cost you $80. They tend to strip pretty easily, too.

 

[ST Guy]

I'd make sure that the Torx driver they're using is in good condition and maybe even grind the tip of it flat to get rid of any radiusing of the edges at the tip. This will ensure a better grip on the drive features of the fastener.

 

[ALANRIDER7]

If you bring them a piece of shit wheel that becomes a time-sucking nightmare (it happens), why shouldn't they be compensated for their time? Trying to pin them down to a number beforehand is not proper for this type of job.

It's not the shop's problem that the idiot engineers put fasteners made out of butter on the rotor- it's your problem.

Ask for a *no-problem* price quote. If things go smoothly, you know what the price is ahead of time. The right way to handle this is to have a pre-determined price limit that kicks in if problems develop (it happens). If the job turns into a clusterfuck, you get a call to authorize the additional labor.

Rotor bolts can be a real motherfucker to deal with.

 

[mototireguy]

Those torx bolts sometimes come out like butter and sometimes they're a biotch.

Shop maybe just trying to cover the worse case scenario?

 

[norcalkeith]

Totally understandable and makes sense, thanks guys - and would a mod be cool enough to merge these - I accidentally posted it in the Sink too....:dunno

And yes, the reason that it's going to the shop - because it IS a bitch....exhibit A:

Here's what I think happened: I realize this job can go south quickly....which is why I'm asking for max 'book times'.....because I KNOW, as you said Rob, that the chance of these bolts being a bitch is quite high.....tech hears me asking, and gives me the quote, and informs me of the extra time possibility - when I ask about the max 'book time' - he thinks that I'm assuming that he is going charge me that full time; when in reality I'm just trying to see how nasty the price could hypothetically get.....I hope that makes sense.

 

[bobl]

According to law, they must supply you with a quote in writing. If a problem arises, and will exceed 10% of the original quote, you must be contacted to OK the extra cost. I know a lot of shops don't abide by that, but as a former service manager, that was what I was taught. If, as a service provider, you end up with a cost overun, and no OK from the customer (over the phone is legit, marking amount, date, time), you will most surely loose in court.

 

[norcalkeith]

As an aside, totally unrelated hypothetical: SO what if you're tearing an engine down, hit the quote, realize that it's gonna be 30% over, have the bike in pieces all over the place, and the customer declines to pay more - what do you do in that situation? Put everything back together unfixed and return the bike? Return bike as is? laughing)

 

[ST Guy]

Totally understandable and makes sense, thanks guys - and would a mod be cool enough to merge these - I accidentally posted it in the Sink too....:dunno

And yes, the reason that it's going to the shop - because it IS a bitch....exhibit A:

Here's what I think happened: I realize this job can go south quickly....which is why I'm asking for max 'book times'.....because I KNOW, as you said Rob, that the chance of these bolts being a bitch is quite high.....tech hears me asking, and gives me the quote, and informs me of the extra time possibility - when I ask about the max 'book time' - he thinks that I'm assuming that he is going charge me that full time; when in reality I'm just trying to see how nasty the price could hypothetically get.....I hope that makes sense.

So who made that bit?

Also, notice the slightly rounded or curved end of the bit. And the radii at the corners of the actual driving elements. What I'd do is carefully grind the tip down enough so that it's perfectly flat and those small radiused edges at the ends of the driving features are sharp. This will ensure maximum "bite" of the drive in the fastener.

Of couse, if the matierial of the drive is softer than that of the fastener, then you're gonna get some deformation of the drive like in your photo. (Which is why I asked who made it.)

 

[auntiebling]

Mat... Co?

 

[norcalkeith]

/\

 

[Stormdragon]

The Lead MEch may or may not have handled it well, but it sounds like he was trying to be honest with you.

As an aside, totally unrelated hypothetical: SO what if you're tearing an engine down, hit the quote, realize that it's gonna be 30% over, have the bike in pieces all over the place, and the customer declines to pay more - what do you do in that situation? Put everything back together unfixed and return the bike? Return bike as is? laughing)

Charge for time into the teardown, and here's your boxes of bits, have a nice day.

 

[Burning1]

If tho bolt heads are already damaged from a previous swap attempt, I'd tend to bill it as a $80+ project rather than as a $25 project.

 

[ST Guy]

If tho bolt heads are already damaged from a previous swap attempt, I'd tend to bill it as a $80+ project rather than as a $25 project.

Yep. And a sharp mechanic will look for things like that before quoting a job. There's nothing quite so frustrating as working on something that some other guy has previously buggered up, whether it be a bike, a car, or a house or something.

 

[afm199]

So who made that bit?

Also, notice the slightly rounded or curved end of the bit. And the radii at the corners of the actual driving elements. What I'd do is carefully grind the tip down enough so that it's perfectly flat and those small radiused edges at the ends of the driving features are sharp. This will ensure maximum "bite" of the drive in the fastener.

Of couse, if the matierial of the drive is softer than that of the fastener, then you're gonna get some deformation of the drive like in your photo. (Which is why I asked who made it.)

That bit is so fuxored there would be nothing left if you ground it down. The flutes are twisted most of their length..

 

[Junkie]

On a Harley front wheel that a friend of mine was tearing down for powdercoat, he first broke an allen and then - with heat and penetrating oil - eventually rounded it out. In the end it took a few steps of welding another bolt on to get it out. He ended up eating the cost, but my point is just that it can be VERY difficult to remove rotor bolts.