PSA: DMV doesn't consider transfer of ownership to be final until buyer does his part

[quicksparks]

There have been many threads here related to this topic. Usually they start because someone sold a bike and the buyer got a red light camera ticket, parking ticket, or impound fees, and the seller was being contacted to take responsibility. The usual advice is to keep the release of liability on file and to send a copy to whomever is requesting payment, and that should be enough to get them to move along to contact the new owner who didn't complete the transfer of ownership on her end.

That may be the case sometimes (hopefully most the time), but I saw this bolded warning on DMV's website today: Reporting the sale or transfer of a vehicle or vessel to the DMV does not constitute a transfer of ownership. The record is not permanently transferred out of your name until the DMV receives a completed application for transfer of ownership and payment of appropriate fees from the new owner.

Link: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/online/nrl/welcome

The warning is new as far as I can tell. I just sold a bike and I haven't sold a vehicle since 2016, so maybe it's not that new. But it stands out as a new development to me. That makes me think that more and more buyers of used vehicles are failing to complete the transfer by paying the sales tax and applying for a new title at the DMV (or at AAA). Why would anyone fail to transfer ownership to their name for a vehicle they just paid thousands of dollars for? Beats me, but some people are just lazy and irresponsible. I know someone personally who is like that, so, I guess there are a lot of them out there.

My fear is that if it's happening more frequently than in the past, DMV is sick of getting the runaround, and holding the last registered owner responsible for fines more often than not.

What to do about it? Well, I have known of people who go to the DMV with the buyer to see the transaction through. That may seem like overkill, but that's their prerogative. I just make sure to check the buyer's ID and I see to it that they sign the title on the spot rather than leave it unsigned for months or years (people do that to "flip" a vehicle without paying fees -- leaves you vulnerable to aforementioned bill collectors).

Good luck.

 

[banshee01]

What kind of fines would the dmv be going after???

I could see parking tickets or impound fees but domt think dmv has anything to with that.

I sold a truck and 2 weeks later guy had it impounded he never registered it in his name. I recieved s notice in the mail that I could be held responsible as the last registered owner. I had already electronically sent in the release. I was like fuck it

 

[Gary856]

A complication like this happened me recently. Six months after selling my last bike (which went very smoothly to a cool buyer) I received a CHP written notification that "my" bike was impounded; I ignored that since I filed the release of liability electronically with the DMV. A few weeks after that I received a letter from the tow yard notifying me that they intended to do a lien sale to pay for the impound and storage fee. I spoke with the tow yard manager who said the "interested party" on the form is the guy I sold the bike to, which meant DMV got my electronic release of liability but the buyer never complete the title transfer. If I wanted to contest the lien sale then I needed to go to court with them and became responsible for the fees, but if I didn't want to contest then I didn't need to do anything, so I did nothing. It is pretty puzzling why someone would pay cash for a vehicle but not transfer the title; it's also beyond me how one screws up so badly to get his vehicle impounded.

 

[tgrrdr]

It is pretty puzzling why someone would pay cash for a vehicle but not transfer the title; it's also beyond me how one screws up so badly to get his vehicle impounded.

my neighbor's car was towed from across the street in front of my house. It had been sitting for weeks and the registration sticker was expired - I assume because he never transferred it into his name. I came home from work one day and it was gone, another neighbor told me that the PD showed up mid-morning, a little later the tow truck came, loaded it up and took it away.

Lot's of possible reasons, maybe it had back fees he didn't want to pay, couldn't pass smog, didn't want to pay tax, too lazy, who knows?

 

[ScottRNelson]

Since I get personalized license plates on all of my vehicles, I keep the plate when I sell the vehicle. Did that with the last three bikes that I sold in California. That's both an incentive for the new owner to go register it and it makes it a bit harder for a tow yard to get back to me on it.

In Idaho you keep the plate anyway when you sell a vehicle. This is what it says on the DMV site:

The license plates you display on your personal vehicle belong to you. When you sell or otherwise transfer a vehicle, you need to take the plates off of the vehicle. That way, law enforcement officers will not assume the vehicle is yours when they pull it over. When you keep your plates, you can use them on another vehicle you may acquire rather than having to buy new ones and receive credit for any remaining time on your registration. The buyer will be motivated to transfer the title out of your name and into his.

Somewhere else it said to take the plate to the DMV and turn it in as more proof that you've sold it. You also are supposed to turn in a transfer of title form, just like in California.

 

[solarae]

Most important part of a vehicle transfer (except getting paid) is to send in the dang RELEASE OF OWNERSHIP form. I fill out the paper one that's attached to the title and keep it for reference and do the actual release online at DMV.

 

[295566]

Obviously, this isn't new... when you sell a vehicle you're not transferring ownership, just releasing liability. It's still registered to you until the new owner submits their part. Until then, it will show up in DMV record as "pending" with old owner as registered owner.

 

[NorCalBusa]

DMV is full of mouthing "policy" posed as law whenever possible (just look at any DMV test- you will laugh aloud). They are not the arbiter of a sale's existence/not, that's going to be a civil decision (and Business & Professions codification/case law). I suspect they are more likely refering to how the vehicle will remain classified in their system.

 

[bigpoppa]

It’s not just individual buyers. I had a similar situation with a car I traded in to a dealer. Even though the dealer submitted all paperwork to the DMV, about a year later I received a letter from a tow yard wanting me to pay $4k in storage fees.

I had to get a copy of the paperwork the dealer submitted to the DMV showing the date the car was traded in. I then sent the tow yard a letter with a copy of that paperwork letting them know that I hadn’t owned that vehicle in over year.

Never heard anything further about it. Bottom line, sometimes it’s the DMV’s fault and they try to pass it off on the seller and/or buyer.

 

[Butch]

DMV is full of mouthing "policy" posed as law whenever possible (just look at any DMV test- you will laugh aloud). They are not the arbiter of a sale's existence/not, that's going to be a civil decision (and Business & Professions codification/case law). I suspect they are more likely refering to how the vehicle will remain classified in their system.

This, prolly. I had the DMV hassle me once about a registration that had not been transferred. I had a lawyer help me, so we had our bases covered.

To be responsible until the buyer executes registration is absurd. Have you been to the DMV lately? They are overwhelmed.

Edit, just document that you did your part.

 

[FXCLM5]

dmv lines suck, last time i had like 2 or 3 thing simple things that needed to be done, left work early at like 330 got to dmv at like 345, waited in line till like 445.

Then was told its late in the day and the lady declared she wanted to leave at 5 and there is a line so I need to choose only 1 thing for them to process.

I was pretty livid, wasted 1.5 hrs of work only to be told after 1 hour of waiting patiently in line that they will only do 1 thing per customer...... or the other instance where it took me 4 dmv visits to get my k8 gsxr 1000 reg in my name cuz i bought it off barf who was a dealer that repod the bike.

 

[Butch]

We’re mad as hell and we’re not gonna take it anymore?
Something something something...

 

[Marcoose]

Something similar happened to me a few years back. I’ve kept and submitted copies of the buyer’s DL, bill of sale, cheque, title and ROL. Never heard from the authorities again. It’s a pain to be overzealous, and it pays.

 

[GAJ]

What if the sale is out of State so the new owner never has to deal with California DMV?

 

[Marcoose]

What if the sale is out of State so the new owner never has to deal with California DMV?

It turns out the bloke that bought the motorbike in question above was from and returning to another state. He picked up 1-2 parking tickets in Oakland/East Bay (IIRC). I have no idea where and if he registered the motorbike. It seems our local authorities accepted all the copies of the paperwork I had, for they've never contacted me again. The magic of paper trail.

 

[fubar929]

What to do about it? Well, I have known of people who go to the DMV with the buyer to see the transaction through. That may seem like overkill, but that's their prerogative. I just make sure to check the buyer's ID and I see to it that they sign the title on the spot rather than leave it unsigned for months or years (people do that to "flip" a vehicle without paying fees -- leaves you vulnerable to aforementioned bill collectors).

You're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill here.

Yes, if you sell your bike to someone who doesn't register it your name will remain on the title and in the DMV database. That does not mean that you are still responsible for the bike! It just means that someone may contact you in the future requesting payment for one thing or another. If that happens, you should send them a copy of the ROL (and a copy of the Bill of Sale, if you have one) to prove you're not responsible for the requested payment. In my experience, that's all that's necessary.