New project - 78 T140 basket

[augustiron]

Well, I jumped on an impulse yesterday and picked up a basket case 78 Triumph T140. It is just a pile of parts I will be inventorying today. Not sure what I am going to do with it yet but it is certainly not a restoration candidate.

I am going to put it together loose on the work table and see what is there and what isn't, then decide. Maybe I put the KTM suspension on this instead of a cb450? At a glance it looks like a PITA but I am a sucker for hopeless projects.

I will actually try to document what I do with this one as I have never taken the time to do that.

 

[Tri750]

one if the important things on the oil in frame Triumphs is the lugs where the swing arm mounts are welded to the frame backbone. when disassembling the lugs can fracture causing an oil leak as the backbone is the oil tank. use of a puller or press, you must be very careful when taking apart. previous owners may have done this as well.
you won't know it until after you powder coat or paint and assemble the bike.
if there's doubt, you can fill the frame with soapy water, fashion plugs and apply LOW air pressure to see if the frame will hold.
I have some experience with Triumphs especially the T140 and would be happy to help.

 

[Carlo]

My favorite old bikes all started out as basket cases.

 

[Gabe]

I think a basket case is easier than getting an entire bike, as you have to take everything apart anyway. This way, you won't feel guilty not keeping it original and can do what you think is best for the bike YOU want instead of concours judges. I'm eagerly looking forward to this thread.

 

[Cereal KLR]

Come on over if you need to see where everything goes :laughing

 

[Cereal KLR]

The good part of these basket jobs is you can do what ever you want.

 

[augustiron]

Thank you for trying to motivate and inspire me. I need it at this point.

I usually dive deep and fast into projects but the current life situation does not allow that so I am a bit frustrated that I have not even touched this yet except to move it into the garage. I need to learn some patience and learn to savor and plan instead of pulling all nighters until a project is done, then getting another and starting it all again.

I had two customer bikes jump the attention line in front of this, and there is a third waiting.

 

[augustiron]

OK, I played with the pile of Triumph for a few minutes today as I finally finished the pre-summer service on the Norton.

 

[augustiron]

and a pile of parts

 

[augustiron]

This is my first Triumph so I am going to loosely assemble what I have to see what is there and what is missing. With the time I had this is where I got.
I am perturbed this thing is Whitworth hardware, I was hoping by this year they were metric as I have a ton of metric spare hardware but nothing Whitworth. I am also still baffled that the pipes are just shoved into the head.

To be a complete stockish bike what big things I found so far missing:
rear fender, tail light, throttle tube and housing, mufflers, various nuts and bolts, the wiring is a complete hack and I will have to start from scratch.

I may put it together with the stock parts I have just to get it running to test the engine and transmission. the decide how far to go with it.

 

[gnstalodz]

opcorn

 

[Tri750]

Couple things, in this picture, is that the frame on right side? Looks like a frame tab is torn out or something.

Also, check the sidestand tab. Many riders would sit on the bikes with the sidestand down or kickstart it while standing on the pegs. This in time bends the tab and will also crack it. If you are going to use the stock sidestand, bolt it on and check the lean angle. Also put a large Crescent on the tab and flex it to see if it moves to see if it's cracked. You'll want to fix it before you paint it or mount the engine.

The push in exhaust spigots were a constant headache. The cheap finned clamps did very little to keep the head pipes in place. You'll get exhaust leaks and using the stock head pipes with cross over, they would eventually crack.
A great fix can be seen in the pic I posted above of my '76. Tap on the pic and zoom in on the head. It's a kit from the UK that is a fix once and for all.

I'm sure you have a Brit parts source but I know of a new place that will be offering a bit of a discount to BARF members. PM me.

 

[augustiron]

Thanks Tri, another thing missing: sidestand. I will inspect the tab for sure. Thanks for the heads up.

Yes there is a hole in the frame. Someone had welded on some hoopty highway pegs, the right side is still there, the left side is a hole where it was ripped off. They will be removed and the frame rewelded. I am a pretty good welder so I am not concerned about that.

 

[firstbuell]

congrats on the acquisition - allow yerself lotsa time to re-do this

oh - not that it's likely to matter, that F fender sure looks Honda-4......

 

[augustiron]

Well I decided to go full retard and mock up the KTM front and rear ends.

The front looks like a bolt on with different bearings and a spacer to make up the difference in head tube length. The rake is a bit lax but this is just a freak machine for now so I will live with it. I will get the suspension shortened to get the ground clearance and seat height more in the realm of usable. The wheelbase at full suspension is 6" longer then the KTM SX it is coming from. It will come down with shortened suspension a bit.

The rear has a couple of issues. The KTM rear shock is offset to the right of the bike centerline. Aesthetically that is a bummer but I have a plan to build an adapter to put the shock reservoir to the left so the shock+reservoir are centered on the frame at the top. This will be interesting. The chainline and widths of the inside and outside of the swingarm look close enough that some spacers may work. Also have to deal with the swingarm bolt once I get the old stuff apart. On that...

How the hell do you get the swingarm pivot bolt out of these without cutting stuff up?!

The swingarm now moves freely on the bolt, the bolt spins through the swingarm but no amount of heat, spinning or hammering is moving the bolt laterally to come out.
Next step seems to be destructive to the swingarm with either a sawzall or blowtorch.

I was hoping to keep everything in tact as much as possible at this point until I see if this KTM swap is really feasible. At some point I start cutting and welding and will be at the point of no return but I don't want to do that yet until I see what will happen with mocking up the KTM swingarm.

 

[firstbuell]

call Ken Armann in SJ or one of the vintage Brit advertisers in "City Bike" for disassembly hints

 

[Gabe]

call Ken Armann in SJ or one of the vintage Brit advertisers in "City Bike" for disassembly hints

Yeah!

 

[Tri750]

The factory service manual directs to remove the RIGHT nut and washer and push out to the left. As I said way above that's a problem as after years of water getting in there, things can be seized up calling for a press that can tear the swingarm bracket away from the frame (oil tank) and cause an oil leak.

If you can put the frame on the left side use your choice of penetrating oil to soak in to help loosen.

I suggest an air chisel with a blunt drift tip.
If the swingarm bolt is flat, I would use a big drill bit to drill a shallow divot into the end of the bolt so the air chisel has a home to drive into. You want short bursts so the vibration will hopefully break free the rust.

 

[augustiron]

I have the right nut off.
PB blaster, oil, grease in the fittings, oxy-acet torch, impact driver, aluminum drift and 5# sledge: nothing!
I did get it to rotate really well, haha, but I need it out.
At this point the threads are OK and I can retreat if needed.

I will try the air hammer/jackhammer next.

Where does this usually rust up? in the frame section or in the swingarm section? If I knew that I could focus my abuse.

 

[Tri750]

it's a bad deal. the sleeves within just fuse to the lugs on the frame is my guess.
you should also apply the air chisel drift to these areas hoping to vibrate the parts loose. but it's just a very bad thing that happens. success stories are few