Looking for input: Elderly drivers and Collision Avoidance Technology

[Doc_V]

My mother is up there in years but still drives on a daily basis, which I believe is good, because I firmly believe in "use it or lose it". That said, I realize the day will soon come that she can / should no longer drive and I worry that this will begin a rapid decline in her well being when she loses her freedom and becomes home bound. To that end, for obvious reasons, I'd like to prolong this inevitable situation if at all possible, and so, I'm hoping the new Collision Avoidance technology now available on many cars might help keep her, and others, safe while prolonging her independence. ...But am I asking too much? ...For example, one of the more common elderly collisions results in mistaking the throttle for the brake in a parking lot. We've all seen or heard about it. Would collision avoidance technology prevent something like this from happening, even if your foot was planted firmly on the the throttle and flooring it? I don't want to put my mother, or others, at risk and would like to know if there's hope. Please... Before you provide a knee-jerk response... Consider what it would mean to both your parent, and you, if you were to take away their mobility/freedom/independence. Thank you . I greatly appreciate your response.

P.S.Yes, I'm aware of senior shuttles, Lyft, etc., but it's definitely not the same. Consider how you would feel if you were denied the ability to drive.

 

[TheRobSJ]

My mom is 70. A couple years ago it was time to get her a new vehicle. I told her that whatever she chose I was going to make sure it had every driver assist and safety feature available. Knowing the whole time that my mom and anything technologically complex is not in her wheelhouse. If the input on her tv gets switched inadvertently, I’m getting a call saying the tv is broken.

So I don’t expect her to ever use the radar cruise control or the pseudo self driving lane keep assist features. But those features go hand in hand with collision warning and collision mitigation braking features, so I’m glad the vehicle has it.

Reverse camera is great of course. But what’s better are the front and rear parking sensors. What else is good? A cross traffic warning is useful when backing up out of a driveway. A blind spot warning system is great too, but useless if the driver doesn’t use turn signals before they change lanes.

Most new vehicle have an interlock where is the brake pedal is pressed, the accelerator pedal won’t do anything. So no more two foot driving mistakes. Thanks Toyota and their bunching up floor mats for that one. But as for the classic mistake of stabbing the accelerator pedal instead of the brake? Nope there’s really nothing that can save you from that. There’s some vehicles that come with pedestrian collision avoidance features...and that may reduce or prevent a parking lot boo boo when pressing the wrong pedal. But I wouldn’t count on it.

 

[2legs2wheels]

I have heard good things about Tesla's auto driving system but don't have extensive experience with it. Have friends working on fully automated driving in other firms and they tell me the tech is a few years away from prime time but Tesla's stuff is pretty usable.

 

[Kenny94945]

FWIW...I'd think a driving training or "race" school driving program is a better option than automatic driving/ collision software.

Does she still have the coordination, strength or vision to drive?
Even with an automated software will she drive 45 in a 55 mph zone or transverse a corner at 5 instead of 25?

Good luck in your decision and your mom's ability to maintain her driving freedom. I too do not look forward to a day when or if I lose my driving ability.

 

[CDONA]

A friend of mine has a newer Suburu, and she makes me drive it. She has most of the alarms disabled, but I'm dealing with the peripheral sensors. Parked, engine on, ready to leave, alarms on passing cars, chirping and blinking. Distracted by stuff I'm not watching for yet, before entering the traffic stream. Alarm for roadway misalignment, raised curbing not sensed in alignment, as I pass by.
Drive me nuts trying to figure what I may have missed, but mostly, why an alarm for that?
How much time behind the wheel will it take to understand every alarm, as it happens, and process the info, into a smooth every day experience.

 

[aminalmutha]

I have dealt with this directly with a couple family members already. I have also been hit hard by an elderly driver.

Yes, cars are much safer today but I think the biggest thing that is going to help and elderly person is brake assist. Lane departure, etc etc are often distracting more than anything. Collision avoidance stuff can reduce the severity of an impact but likely won’t help much in low speed fender benders and such.

I completely understand the independence thing. Definitely get a safe car. However, the biggest thing is knowing ones limitations. Only drive in daylight, not on the freeway, not during rush hour, stuff like that.

Relative of mine drove until she was 93 but her driving was limited and she was probably an exception.

 

[Doc_V]

I have heard good things about Tesla's auto driving system but don't have extensive experience with it. Have friends working on fully automated driving in other firms and they tell me the tech is a few years away from prime time but Tesla's stuff is pretty usable.

Thx for the reply. You bring up an interesting point. I've heard about Tesla's auto driving, I think we all have to some extent [buttheads making videos from the back seat... ] But seriously, I guess all mfgrs have differing bespoke systems, and not all are created equal. I'd been considering Kia/Hyundai, my mother loves her Kia Soul, but I guess I'll have to look into the differing systems.

 

[Doc_V]

My mom is 70. A couple years ago it was time to get her a new vehicle. I told her that whatever she chose I was going to make sure it had every driver assist and safety feature available. Knowing the whole time that my mom and anything technologically complex is not in her wheelhouse. If the input on her tv gets switched inadvertently, I’m getting a call saying the tv is broken.

So I don’t expect her to ever use the radar cruise control or the pseudo self driving lane keep assist features. But those features go hand in hand with collision warning and collision mitigation braking features, so I’m glad the vehicle has it.

Reverse camera is great of course. But what’s better are the front and rear parking sensors. What else is good? A cross traffic warning is useful when backing up out of a driveway. A blind spot warning system is great too, but useless if the driver doesn’t use turn signals before they change lanes.

Most new vehicle have an interlock where is the brake pedal is pressed, the accelerator pedal won’t do anything. So no more two foot driving mistakes. Thanks Toyota and their bunching up floor mats for that one. But as for the classic mistake of stabbing the accelerator pedal instead of the brake? Nope there’s really nothing that can save you from that. There’s some vehicles that come with pedestrian collision avoidance features...and that may reduce or prevent a parking lot boo boo when pressing the wrong pedal. But I wouldn’t count on it.

Ha... I too get the calls to turn on the TV, but you bring up a fair point, could she even handle the tech? It's something I've wondered about. But we're at the point [my mother is 83] that I have to put my foot down and tell her it's either this or no driving. Hopefully she can adapt.

 

[Doc_V]

FWIW...I'd think a driving training or "race" school driving program is a better option than automatic driving/ collision software.

Does she still have the coordination, strength or vision to drive?
Even with an automated software will she drive 45 in a 55 mph zone or transverse a corner at 5 instead of 25?

Good luck in your decision and your mom's ability to maintain her driving freedom. I too do not look forward to a day when or if I lose my driving ability.

We're beyond driving schools. She's 83, and while her vision is fine, her strength and coordination are not what they used to be, but she's amazingly independent and capable for 83, she looks 10 years younger. Fortunately she's stopped driving on freeways.

 

[Doc_V]

A friend of mine has a newer Suburu, and she makes me drive it. She has most of the alarms disabled, but I'm dealing with the peripheral sensors. Parked, engine on, ready to leave, alarms on passing cars, chirping and blinking. Distracted by stuff I'm not watching for yet, before entering the traffic stream. Alarm for roadway misalignment, raised curbing not sensed in alignment, as I pass by.
Drive me nuts trying to figure what I may have missed, but mostly, why an alarm for that?
How much time behind the wheel will it take to understand every alarm, as it happens, and process the info, into a smooth every day experience.

All the alarms, etc., have me a little concerned. Will they help or make it worse? Too much distraction and I could easily see how they could create more stress and anxiety, which would only make things worse. Maybe what she needs is a level 2 or 3 car when we're still in the infancy stages of driver automation? I'm thinking maybe getting a rental car for a week or two may be a good way to see how she responds to the tech before committing to buying another car.

 

[Doc_V]

I have dealt with this directly with a couple family members already. I have also been hit hard by an elderly driver.

Yes, cars are much safer today but I think the biggest thing that is going to help and elderly person is brake assist. Lane departure, etc etc are often distracting more than anything. Collision avoidance stuff can reduce the severity of an impact but likely won’t help much in low speed fender benders and such.

I completely understand the independence thing. Definitely get a safe car. However, the biggest thing is knowing ones limitations. Only drive in daylight, not on the freeway, not during rush hour, stuff like that.

Relative of mine drove until she was 93 but her driving was limited and she was probably an exception.

Wow, your relative sounds pretty amazing. My mother is 83, and while I'd love it if she could drive another 10 years, unless the tech advances quickly enough that probably won't be possible. And that's assuming her health holds up. I don't like to think about it, but it's reality.

 

[Doc_V]

Thanks all for the input, this is helpful to discuss it out loud, I do appreciate it. Please keep it coming.

 

[TheRobSJ]

but you bring up a fair point, could she even handle the tech? It's something I've wondered about.

All the alarms, etc., have me a little concerned. Will they help or make it worse?

Just as I've gotten the call in the middle of a day saying the tv is broken, I've also gotten the call saying the car is broken. "There's a light on the dash that looks like lightning" which makes zero sense to me because I know the vehicle inside and out and there's no light that looks like that. So I go and check it, and she's managed to hit the button to turn off the collision mitigation braking with her knee or something. And the symbol for it on the dash and on the button apparently looks like a lightning bolt to her so she had no idea what it was. Even though I told her not a month before that what all the buttons were.

The alarms? It could go either way. My mom actually uses the parking sensor beeps. She knows when she hears the front sensor start to beep, she's pulled far enough in the garage.

But for the most part, if you do everything right, you wont hear alarms. And you don't have to be elderly to benefit from that. We all been trained to buckle up right away now instead of as we're driving two blocks down the road already because the reminder will start beeping away the instant you start moving without it buckled. So with these driver assists, if tailgating is your thing? You will get an awful lot of brake warnings. The way to avoid them is to drive properly and leave some distance. I get customers bringing their car into me all the time saying the car always keeps telling them to brake even though "there's nothing in front of them" as they claim. And sure there's a false alarm every now and then, but if it's supposedly always going off, I know they are a habitual tailgater. Because it sure as hell doesn't go off that much in my car, and I'm driving the same exact car as them.

 

[aminalmutha]

Well, back up cameras are mandated, ABS and TC are ubiquitous, most cars won’t even let you do a burnout anymore. But one big thing about accidents is that many people don’t know how hard they can brake. And elderly may not be able to. Which is why I think, if anything, brake assist could be helpful.

Also, something with good visibility, as small blind spots as possible, something she is comfortable in. That is something no one can determine but her.

Thing is with elderly is that they can be a ok one month and not the next. Keep an eye out. Check up regularly. Ride with her on occasion if possible.

Had to take the keys from one olde farte because he was blowing stop signs, red lights, and tail gating extremely badly. Last time I rode with him was fucking frightening. Family had to give away the car otherwise he was going to kill someone. And no lane departure warning shit was going to solve that.

 

[TheRiddler]

I've owned 2 cars with fancy collision avoidance tech: 2015 Subaru Forester and 2019 Acura RDX.

The tech is impressive, and I have no doubt it has prevented collisions, but it's certainly quirky and far from perfect. Nothing will prevent someone hitting the gas when they meant to hit the brake. It's actually a safety feature so you can move if you need to, and the gas pedal will override the avoidance system.

My experience is that the driver aids are currently more focused on preventing driver fatigue during mundane tasks rather than preventing serious collisions from driver error. If mom pulls out into traffic she didn't see, no driver aid will stop that. If mom pulls into too small of a parking spot, no driver aid will stop her from sideswiping another car. If mom runs a little wide on a canyon road with no shoulder, no driver aid will correct her into the lane fast enough.

 

[Abacinator]

My 93 year old dad drives better than the majority of people on the road. He's also probably in better shape than I am :laughing

 

[Cycle61]

My 67 year old dad is a terrible driver, but in fairness, he always has been. :laughing

 

[Eldritch]

I've owned 2 cars with fancy collision avoidance tech: 2015 Subaru Forester and 2019 Acura RDX.

The tech is impressive, and I have no doubt it has prevented collisions, but it's certainly quirky and far from perfect. Nothing will prevent someone hitting the gas when they meant to hit the brake. It's actually a safety feature so you can move if you need to, and the gas pedal will override the avoidance system.

My experience is that the driver aids are currently more focused on preventing driver fatigue during mundane tasks rather than preventing serious collisions from driver error. If mom pulls out into traffic she didn't see, no driver aid will stop that. If mom pulls into too small of a parking spot, no driver aid will stop her from sideswiping another car. If mom runs a little wide on a canyon road with no shoulder, no driver aid will correct her into the lane fast enough.

You also want to factor in an elder persons ability to adapt to new technology. I have an Aunt that is always trying to buy new tech to make life easier for my grandparents and they usually just leave it laying around the house with no fucking idea what to do with it, even after we try to train them.

 

[aminalmutha]

You also want to factor in an elder persons ability to adapt to new technology. I have an Aunt that is always trying to buy new tech to make life easier for my grandparents and they usually just leave it laying around the house with no fucking idea what to do with it, even after we try to train them.

Haha! Same. I tell people "save your money, they're not going to use XYZ gadget". They don't listen. Olde Farte ends up not using it. Or ends up fucking it up or causing some drama some how.

 

[Archimedes]

P.S.Yes, I'm aware of senior shuttles, Lyft, etc., but it's definitely not the same. Consider how you would feel if your mother killed an innocent person.

FTFY.

My Dad's skills declined, we argued about it, he had an accident, so we took his keys away. He howled, but he simply doesn't have the right to endanger other people just because he wants to drive.