How's this going to work? So many questions...

[ST Guy]

It will, ultimately, end badly.

 

[brichter]

So what is the information plan if the BDOT officer wants to make a traffic stop? Will they have information covering wants/warrants/live crime info so they know if they're pulling someone over that has a felony warrant or, worse yet, just robbed a bank/liquor store or killed someone? I'm pretty sure those systems aren't open to the general public...

That civilian position is beginning to sound like cannon fodder.

 

[budman]

Thanks for the info Bojangle and all for keeping this thread here.

I had not thought of 1/4 of what Bo posted.

 

[bojangle]

Hey, this is like an idea I posted a while back, having a 3rd party traffic enforcement agency, but state-wide.

We're too anal about traffic violations anyway, but then it's really not about traffic enforcement. That is just an ancillary concern, a shoe-in...

And that is why stops end up being so dangerous. If all you're going to get is a traffic citation, criminals probably wouldn't be so reactive, especially when the stop becomes a life changing event. I don't see so much of a problem with parking tickets, even when the driver is present. People aren't ambushing meter maids.

And then, what if there is criminal activity or an arrest needs to be made (I'm not calling the stop an arrest, redefine the laws...), cops would be called to handle that. If they run, follow and advise police and it's then business as usual.

I'd expect the vast majority of people to just take their lumps, or just ignore or run, and then police can step in.

Some may get shot, cost of business if that's what you want to do.

I could never understand the urgency of having to resolve a situation immediately anyway. Most of the time the individual is identified, either by licence or plate, and can be contacted under better circumstances at some later time, or just covertly followed. Like if the officer sees a gun or drugs, just handle it cool and get your backup all in place and ambush the bad guy later. If he's really a bad guy, he can be put on a watch list and collect more data, etc...

But I think it's a bad idea for one city to do something like this.

I'm gonna guess you haven't written any parking tickets. I have, both as a civilian and as an officer. Plus I make vehicle stops and write tickets (at least sometimes). Anyways, it's more common to see someone get unhinged over a parking ticket as compared to, oh, I don't know, a felony arrest, or a moving violation. Yeah, seriously. Violence wise, not as much, since parking tickets don't involve signing or physical arrests, but definitely more explosive anger involved.

Talked to two Berkeley guys. Any agency that deploys for whatever reason into city of Berkeley will have to abide by BPD operation manual. Using pepper spray, tazers, LTL, etc. which probably means that mutual aid isn’t coming.

Any Berkeley policies (anywhere for that matter) are only going to apply to the agencies under their control. The City of Berkeley cannot control ICE activity within the city. They can refuse to help, but can't direct ICE to do anything. If a CHP officer stops a vehicle in Berkeley, again, they have no control over that, and no say in how it is conducted. The only thing they can do is control their own officers through policy. That could mean only assisting other agencies if the agency will abide by certain procedures, but that's about it. If an outside agency were planning to serve a search warrant at a Berkeley residence for a crime committed in the other agency's jurisdiction, the normal SOP would be advise Berkeley and possibly request a uniformed officer to stand by. But there is no legal mandate to do that. The outside agency has every legal right to go serve their search warrant in Berkeley, following their own policy manual, and Berkeley could not prevent that from happening. UC Berkeley likely has some shared jurisdiction around the University. The UC Berkeley Police will follow their own policy manual, not the policies of Berkeley PD. They can make car stops on Berkeley city streets and there is nothing the City of Berkeley can do about that.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[ctwo]

I'm gonna guess you haven't written any parking tickets. I have, both as a civilian and as an officer. Plus I make vehicle stops and write tickets (at least sometimes). Anyways, it's more common to see someone get unhinged over a parking ticket as compared to, oh, I don't know, a felony arrest, or a moving violation. Yeah, seriously. Violence wise, not as much, since parking tickets don't involve signing or physical arrests, but definitely more explosive anger involved.

I'd think criminals wouldn't put themselves in that position to begin with, and if they were, would have much more to loose by causing a ruckus and exposing themselves.

I'm sure the average joe is more likely to twist off on a meter maid than they would an armed peace officer, but if they do twist off on you, probably not much to loose there anyway. They may shout and scream, but that is about it. I've just never heard anything in the media about it being a problem like traffic stops, where the goal is really something different.

BTW, yes I was responsible for parking authority, not in a ticket writing capacity though. So I had to deal with jerks not following the rules and could kick them out if needed. I was also a golf course marshal and would have to enforce course policy. Dealing with pretentious drunk golfers and their unruly youth is no fun, but I got to drive the souped up golf cart with the badging... :cool
The down side is that I'd also have to drive the range picker where folks took joy in moving target practice. Sometimes they would shoot off-range when I was unloading the balls. Let me tell you there was some serious finger pointing. I'd catch up with them later on the course too and just be there, messing with their game. Suckas! arty

 

[Shaggy]

I'd think criminals wouldn't put themselves in that position to begin with, and if they were, would have much more to loose by causing a ruckus and exposing themselves.

I'm sure the average joe is more likely to twist off on a meter maid than they would an armed peace officer, but if they do twist off on you, probably not much to loose there anyway. They may shout and scream, but that is about it. I've just never heard anything in the media about it being a problem like traffic stops, where the goal is really something different.

Not necessarily true. I’ve arrested plenty of people who had warrants during minor contacts like neighbor disputes, apartment parking space disputes, etc...They could have tucked tail and walked away, but chose to hang around, escalate the situation, and then get arrested.