How much faster, if at all, is a sport bike than a naked bike?

RRrider

RRrider

Enthusiast, Fukrwe Club
Does anyone have any data on the actual difference in laptimes between a sport bike and the equivalent naked bike (think 675R and street triple R, or Aprilia RSV4 and tuono, S1000RR and S1000R, etc).

Has anyone got any data?

Conceptually, clearly there is the wind resistance factor. I'm not sure how much of a big deal this is until you get way up there in skill (I'm thinking I have other issues that could make wind resistance a rounding error...?).

Also there is the fact that nakeds are detuned a bit for the street...so a tighter twistier track may play more to their low down torque advantage (Sears point > T-Hill).

Anyone have data? or lacking that, opinions :laughing

tia
 
Tally Whacker

Tally Whacker

Not another Mike
My lap times on my S1000R are faster than they were on my S100RR at Streets Of Willow, but at the big track at Willow I'm significantly slower.

Wind resistance is a bigger deal than you seem to think.

Speaking about the "detuned for street" thing, the S1000R has more power everywhere in its rev range than the RR does- but the RR keeps revving after the R hits redline. As a result of the short red line, at Laguna Seca I need an extra shift between turns 3 and 4 than I did with my RR. This is more annoying than you might expect.


It seems to me that your basic question is "will I still have as much fun at a track day on my naked bike than I do on my super sport"?

The answer is "probably yes." At T-Hill West, you'll have more fun. At Big Willow, not nearly as much fun.
 
afm199

afm199

Well-known member
Wind resistance is an exponential function. Which means that at 30 mph it's not that big a deal. At 130 mph it's a huge deal.

At Bonneville salt flats, the non streamlined big bikes will reach 200+ mph and the wind resistance will be so great that the rear tire starts spinning up. The wind resistance is the factor that limits top speed.

So if you are going 70 mph on the track, don't sweat it. If you are going 140 mph, it's a big deal.
 
R3DS!X

R3DS!X

Whatever that means
I remember when I tracked my z1000 the wind feeling like I was in a pillow fight but aside from that it was cool. I don't think it's a huge deal aside from the straights. As far as whats faster, it's more about the rider than anything else.
 
Whammy

Whammy

Veteran of Road Racing
Its rider more than bike.
Skill level of rider.
Track familiarity, track and temperature conditions.. all factors.

Trust me an accomplished rider can go out on track with inferior bike and spank everyone with superior bikes.

Ive seen this done with cars and have been one who chases down superior cars in an inferior car.
Driver, conditions, knowledge/familiarity of track.

Now there might be those who want to drill down on this more than needs to be and make it granular.
But lets use this simple instance.
Give Valentino a 250 and you can have a 1000. The 250 lets make it naked the 1000 full fairing.
I'm betting he not only catches you but will more than likely lap you numerous times.
 
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cg_ops

cg_ops

1-Armed Bandit
Anecdotal...

Same exact bike except with/without fairings? They'll be equally fast around slow/medium tracks. Once you start getting past 70 or 80 the aerodynamics kick in favor of the faired bike more and more.

Also, if we're talking lap after lap, the naked-bike rider will tire faster
 
Tally Whacker

Tally Whacker

Not another Mike
Whammy said:
Its rider more than bike.
Skill level of rider.
Track familiarity, track and temperature conditions.. all factors.

Trust me an accomplished rider can go out on track with inferior bike and spank everyone with superior bikes.

Ive seen this done with cars and have been one who chases down superior cars in an inferior car.
Driver, conditions, knowledge/familiarity of track.

Now there might be those who want to drill down on this more than needs to be and make it granular.
But lets use this simple instance.
Give Valentino a 250 and you can have a 1000. The 250 lets make it naked the 1000 full fairing.
I'm betting he not only catches you but will more than likely lap you numerous times.
Click to expand...


The OP was asking about bike vs bike comparison, not rider/bike combo vs rider/bike combo comparison.

The same rider, switching bikes for sessions, will definitely post different lap times on the two types of bike.
 
Whammy

Whammy

Veteran of Road Racing
Yea I hear ya but to me when you see these types of threads they all wanna know what's faster.
Faster to me is a driver/rider not equipment.
 
CDONA

CDONA

Home of Vortex tuning
Mythbusters did an fuel milage test with a Yamaha 250 dual sport. Naked and a full inclosed, heavy(steel rod & shrink rap), dustbin style faring.

Wind resistance affects fuel milage and speed, YMMV depending on tuck.
Bikes with firings are tuned different because they need the extra power up on top for the HP to fight the wind at speed.
 
cg_ops

cg_ops

1-Armed Bandit
Best examples are probably the R1/FZ10 and S1000RR/S1000R. These probably the closest comparison that could be made as an apples to apples comparison. I'm guessing 85%+ of riders couldn't turn significantly different lap times on these 2 bikes.
 
mrmarklin

mrmarklin

Well-known member
cg_ops said:
Anecdotal...

Same exact bike except with/without fairings? They'll be equally fast around slow/medium tracks. Once you start getting past 70 or 80 the aerodynamics kick in favor of the faired bike more and more.

Also, if we're talking lap after lap, the naked-bike rider will tire faster
Click to expand...

All true.

But at some level it's academic. How many of us are pro racers?

In 1984 I owned a Honda V 65 Sabre. When people asked how fast it was I always replied: As fast as I want. :thumbup

Only a very few of us have the skills to ride any of the top hp bikes to the limits on a track. Much less on city/country streets/roads.:wow
 
Moto Beck

Moto Beck

The Longest Title Allowed
having ridden both the Tuono and RSV4 - gearing on the RSV4 is more high end (which is insane because the tuono high end is also insane). It's definitely quicker albeit not significantly. I would argue the more aggressive riding position provides slightly better handling as well in the tight stuff. No data to back that up just personal experience riding both.

I think the gearing and set up is true for the likes of the daytona vs. STR - though not sure about S1000RR vs R
 
stangmx13

stangmx13

not Stan
with everything optimized in full track form - suspension, engine tuning, gearing, tires, etc - of course the full fairing bike will be faster. the decrease in wind resistance is essentially free time and the extra ~10lbs of added race fairings isnt enough to offset that.

i could probably measure how much time is lost around some tracks without the upper and lower on my R6. thats prob the best comparison ull ever find... same bike, same rider, w/ and w/out fairing. i think the trackdays i run would let me out there, ha. but i doubt ill find the time to do it.
 
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R3DS!X

R3DS!X

Whatever that means
Tally Whacker said:
The rider would be the constant on the first scenario, but a variable on the second.
Click to expand...

:thumbup

One more thing I would add that is anecdotal, The lap times i was doing on my z1000 were slower than my F3. but other things like the fact that i had regular street tires on the Z vs slicks on the F3 should be considered.
 
afm199

afm199

Well-known member
LMAO. First, Valentino on a 250 at Thill won't be kicking ass on a good rider on a literbike. A good rider on a literbike will be going 1:54's. Vale might be doing 2:03s, a record for a 250/300 but not 1:54s.

The lack of fairing slows a bike down. I used to run a street trim SV and race faired SV. I got easily 10 mph more on the front straight and 2-4 seconds a lap faster on the faired bike.
 
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