how come the speed limit in california is so low when nobody even follows it?

bluenoser

Well-known member
SprinklerHead said:
Biggest problem with the HOV lanes up here compared to So Cal is that you can change lanes anywhere. I prefer Northern Cali, but give me Southern Cali freeway engineers.

Heh. Actually, you *can* change lanes anywhere down there, and people often do. Just that they *shouldn't*.

As for the "Lexus lanes", there is a major backlash on those, as they penalize the poor. It restricts access to freeways that we all paid for in our taxes.

Personally I'd rather see a ticketing scheme as they do in Finland, where your speeding ticket is based on your income. Who can recall when the CEO for Nokia got caught?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1759791.stm
 

Trogdor

Well-known member
christofu said:


What REALLY kills me is when there's a queue of people getting around a slow moving vehicle (e.g. a truck going 55) and someone zooms down the inside and merges back in right behind the truck. Don't they know that the reason the traffic is moving so slowly in the first place is PRECISELY because of people doing that? Grrr.

Perhaps, but when I do that, I still get around all you fools! :teeth
 

motorman4life

Well-known member
bluenoser said:
Heh. Actually, you *can* change lanes anywhere down there, and people often do. Just that they *shouldn't*.

They have lanes where there is a wall or raised barrier and you cannot get out of the lane for 2 or 3 exits. In some places they have dots and two sets of double yellow lines. In both cases, there are signs prohibiting you from going into or out of the lanes until there is a posted opening. Stiff fines for crossing over a double-double.

This makes them express lanes.
 

Sprinklerhead

Ruining biker reputations
motorman4life said:
They have lanes where there is a wall or raised barrier and you cannot get out of the lane for 2 or 3 exits. In some places they have dots and two sets of double yellow lines. In both cases, there are signs prohibiting you from going into or out of the lanes until there is a posted opening. Stiff fines for crossing over a double-double.

This makes them express lanes.

I do miss those. You get fewer people making a mad dash into the car pool lane every time they see a brake light up a head.
 

Racer4life

Well-known member
personally i think everyone should incorporate motorcycles in their lives that way there will never be traffic, well maybe one day as population grows, but it would nice for a while. too bad its a pipe dream
 

Sprinklerhead

Ruining biker reputations
Racer4life said:
personally i think everyone should incorporate motorcycles in their lives that way there will never be traffic, well maybe one day as population grows, but it would nice for a while. too bad its a pipe dream

And all those cheap parts for sale due to all the crashes...:love
 

grandmastershake

Well-known member
some people should not be allowed to drive. there should be an apptitude test to determine wheter or not you are capable of driving. some drivers i knowmake me wonder how they can even keep their basic life functions going with their current brain power. not to mention that they drive. problem is they rarely in accidents but rather the people avoiding a near miss from them seem to get into accidents swerving away.

and i think we need a annuall safety inspection on cars and bikes in Ca. like other states do. i fix cars for a living and i amazed at how some of these cars are being driven in their current state on unsafeness. i tell people that their brakes are metal to metal and should not be driven and they tell me" oh it's cool i'll bring it by next week i dont have time today." and we should "highway certify cars" also. not every car should be allowed on freeway. i see cars with bald tires launch onto freeway in excess speeds of 80MPH. i would ratrher spend an extra 40 bucks every smog test and know that my car and other cars are safe to drive.

just my lil mini rant i can go on and on about un safe vehicles. i see them all the time. and their owners refuse to fix them . show how much they dont care about thier lives and the lives of others. thats why at work we now check and change all the stop tail and turn lights for free (no charge for almost all of the bulbs) and people get mad that we do this to their cars. go figure. some people are stupid.
 

Eisernkreuz

unteroffizier
motorman4life said:
In Germany, on the Autobahn for instance, they can drive much faster and have fewer accidents per capita. Why?

As I see it, there are 3 major facotrs:
1) Their highways are engineered for higher speeds. For the most part, ours are engineered for lower speeds. The design of the highway has as a significant impact on the designated speed limit.
2) They have different laws on passing. You cannot pass on the right and must move over to the right unless you are actively passing someone. The fast lane is for passing only. You pass and get back over to the right as soon as possible.
3) They generally don't have the congestion we have here.

1) Yep, most of West Europe (ie. the nanny states) have superb roads, redone several times a year. And it's not like when good ol' Caltrans comes out to fix something, they do it fast, good, and there's no bumps and dips and shit left in the road.

2) That campaign is called "Drive right." It's a play on words, meaning drive correctly, which means drive as far right as possible ;)

3) They don't have congestion? 82 million people (about a third to one fourth of the US population) crammed into an area slightly smaller than the state of Montana? Ummm, yeah...
They just have a far better public transit system, people don't commute as much as they do here, and since it costs about $1200 to get your driver's licence over there (as a new driver), and with far stricter driving tests, you cut out a significant portion of the population who can't afford it or is too retarded to drive.

Germany rocks! :teeth
 

JayJ

Well-known member
Well B Rock... I hate to say it, but Deaconblues was 100% right about the metering lights. Too often they are too close to the end of the freeway. Ya see, I love racing (and riding) SV's; however, when I'm not griding 6 gears with my left foot, I'm often griding thriteen gears with my right hand!

With a 435 HP, 80,000# International Eagle, I often barely make it up to freeway speed from those stupid lights. They are a decent idea, they just need more run on room. As noted earlier, big rigs are the slowest common denominator. I think the CalTrans dudes forget to plan for that. Hey look how screwed up the on ramps on Hwy 99 are! If they don't design the freeways for us big guys, we'll just have to squish ya when yer drivin' yer 'ol ladies minivan in our blind spot.

Another problem we have, especially in California (!) is that we have too many people here that haven't driven anything but a water buffalo prior to getting a drivers license!!! As Bob Carol says, we all perceive speed differently! Because the populous here is so diverse, we have a much harder time integrating on the freeway and the State is forced to use a split speed limit system. They do not have this problem in many other states. Hell, in Arizona I can wind my rig up to 75! I have to say it is wierd passing an Arizona trooper at that speed and not feeling like ya just did something wrong, even if it is legal. There would be a lot of squished immigrants (and some natives too) if we did that here!
 

Diezel

كافر extraordinaire
Keep this in mind....

You have freeways like "101 - in palo alto". Where the LIMIT is 65 I believe? I've driven that section. It's HORRIBLE.

101 in Morgan Hill. Nice, new, smooth..... Speel limit 65.

Now I can see how 65 is appropriate for morgan hill, but it sure as hell isnt safe for the road conditions of 101 in palo alto.

The "surveys" need to be more often, and road repairs done quicker. TONS of accidents lately on the water loged section of 101 near 13th in san jose, and near The Alameda on 880 in SJ as well.
 

Racer4life

Well-known member
i always love it when there is new work done on say the 101hwy but never seems to get finished. then they post speed limits like 55mph and it is way too slow for the conditions when there are people doing 70+ on the unfinished construction. if there are workers working on the fwy thats one thing but to have it looking crappy and tell us to drive very slow through the undone unmaned work is ridiculous, especially if they take a year or 2 just to do the job.

another thing i hate about driving on the fwy is that there are way too many people trying to see what happens with accidents and cops giving tickets. what the hell!! why dont LEO's pull over rubberneckers and tell them to stop creating traffic hazards, i feel like im in an obstacle course everytime there is a car that has pulled onto the shoulder cause everyone needs to stop and stare. way dangerous, can we tell people that they will be cited if they are creating these stupid pointless conditions? then maybe do something about it too? traffic would flow a hell of alot better if people would worry more about their own driving instead of trying to see if there is some blood on the road next to a crash.

there should be signs up and down the fwy saying "do not try and observe accidents or you will get a $200 fine, pay attention to the road ahead" or something along those lines. kinda like the no littering signs.
 
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torogi

Well-known member
My thoughts are these:

Lane camping should not be allowed on the leftmost lane, no matter what speed you are going.

A lot of backlog happens when some "righteous" person camps out on the leftmost lane because he is going the speed limit. This promotes dangerous actions by people who want to pass and are forced to overtake on the right lane. This is very unsafe.

The leftmost lane should be designated as passing lane only and should have a higher speed limit.

Persons who are caught 'camping out' on the leftmost lane should be ticketed and penalized with fines MUCH HIGHER THAN SPEEDING.

Just my .02
 

b.rock

Well-known member
JayJ said:
Well B Rock... I hate to say it, but Deaconblues was 100% right about the metering lights. Too often they are too close to the end of the freeway. Ya see, I love racing (and riding) SV's; however, when I'm not griding 6 gears with my left foot, I'm often griding thriteen gears with my right hand!

With a 435 HP, 80,000# International Eagle, I often barely make it up to freeway speed from those stupid lights. They are a decent idea, they just need more run on room. As noted earlier, big rigs are the slowest common denominator. I think the CalTrans dudes forget to plan for that. Hey look how screwed up the on ramps on Hwy 99 are! If they don't design the freeways for us big guys, we'll just have to squish ya when yer drivin' yer 'ol ladies minivan in our blind spot.
Hey, if you made it to freeway speed barely then they worked perfectly, right? :laughing
I understand the complaint, I'm just saying that moving them back is going to cause a complete failure in nearly all local intersections with ramp terminii around here. If a longer run-up can be provided then by all means it should be done. I wouldn't disagree with that at all.
Which on-ramps on 99? I try to avoid there like the plague so I can't recall it all. But the 99 is an older, less standard freeway than say I-5. A lot of places have deficient parts. If it makes you feel better, we do design for trucks, nearly exclusively. After all the fact that an 18-wheeler does 10 000 times the damage to the road that a car does means we have to! :cool Ah, good ol' ESAL (equivilent single axle loads) :nerd
 

b.rock

Well-known member
torogi said:
My thoughts are these:

Lane camping should not be allowed on the leftmost lane, no matter what speed you are going.

A lot of backlog happens when some "righteous" person camps out on the leftmost lane because he is going the speed limit. This promotes dangerous actions by people who want to pass and are forced to overtake on the right lane. This is very unsafe.

The leftmost lane should be designated as passing lane only and should have a higher speed limit.

Persons who are caught 'camping out' on the leftmost lane should be ticketed and penalized with fines MUCH HIGHER THAN SPEEDING.

Just my .02
I don't drive in the left lane unless I'm passing (or HOV). But:
1. During congestion that cuts the capacity in half on 2-lane each direction freeways.
2. The dangerous action is prompted by none, in my personal belief. If someone ahead of me is driving the speed limit on a road w/ a DY, for example, I suck it up and drive or ride the right speed. I don't go passing on the shoulder, around curves, etc. That would be my own dangerous action.
3. Higher speed limits are not going to happen like that as a rule. Trucks pass too, and a closing speed of 30 mph or whatever really sucks. Plus these facilities are only designed for a certain speed. Whether you can do it or not, if someone crashes, the state will not want to be on the hook for that.
I wouldn't condone people enforcing the speed limit like that (I sure don't) and I use the left lane for passing only as a rule, but I have to say that's probably not going to happen. :teeth
I need to stop answering the LEO questions. I don't think anyone wants a highway design thread. ;)
 

torogi

Well-known member
b.rock,
Those are good points to be considered.

However, more often than not, I always encounter campers on the leftmost lane going the speed limit or way less when the slower lanes are wide open. What people do not adhere to is the 'Slower Traffic Keep Right' rule.

This becomes more dangerous in a sense because when people can pass at both left and right lanes, it becomes unpredictable and chaotic. If people are trained to pass only on the left side, this becomes orderly and systematic.

Of course this doesn't mean that one should pass on shoulders or double yellow zones, specially on single lane roads. In those cases, we all have to suck it up and follow the pace at which the car ahead is going.

On double lane roads however, i still think that the left lane should be designated passing lane instead of weaving from lane to lane because a slower car can't stay on the slower lane.

I did spend some time in Europe (Germany, Austria and Switzerland) and passing on the left lane rule is quite effective, even in congested hours. In those cases when traffic is congested, you just follow the pace on the leftmost lane and then go back in the slower lane if traffic becomes lighter and there is an opening on the slower lane.

Whether you drive a truck, bus, car or bike and i agree they all need to pass at some point or another. In this scheme, wouldn't it be so much easier if the left lane were open for them to pass and they could simply go back to the slower lane once they are done passing?

Lastly, have you ever encountered 2 cars going about the same speed (both left and right lane) and effectively blocking all cars wishing to pass? I mean the road ahead is wide open but the car camping on the fast lane is blocking and creating a backlog because he refuses to switch to the slower lane. That does not make sense at all. :)
 

b.rock

Well-known member
Okay so you didn't mean overtly dangerous. More like that passing someone driving in the #1 lane in say the #2 of 3 lanes is dangerous. Eh, I'm not a big fan either. Yet that's still a passing lane for people passing other people in the #3 lane. Ideally there would be a gradation of speed from left to right but it's not that practical all the time. Not from a legal standpoint but a drivers standpoint. I know I drive that way, but I don't think enough people do.
I generally do the lights flashing bit to let people know I'd like to pass on somewhere like I-5 w/ two lanes. I don't ride their ass and incessantly flash or anything, but as I come up, if they don't move and I'm going faster (or would like to), I will flash the brights real quick. I know I prefer have someone do that to me than pass around on the right. If they don't move, fuck them then. :D People who refuse to move are not as bad as the assholes who jump queues to pass and so on, but they still suck. No argument from me at all.
 

JayJ

Well-known member
B Rock asked which part of 99. I'd say most of it, but especially from Sac to Stockton. A driver really needs to be on their toes. I will almost always shoot over to i-5 'cause the better design is eaiser on the brain. (e.g. less stress.)
 

Sprinklerhead

Ruining biker reputations
Up in Oregon they have signs that say left lane for passing only. In CA we get too many people that just park it in the fast lane and don't notice when they have a line of cars behind them that are having to pass on the right as traffic allows.
 

b.rock

Well-known member
Yeah 99 does suck. Love all those depressed freeway sections diving under the local streets. At least it's slightly more interesting. Such scenic desinations as Lodi and Bakersfield await you! :laughing
I'm curious how the traffic on say their I-5 compares to ours, especially regarding operations with that system. And trucks. All the trucks on 99 or 5 pretty much mean passenger cars are passing someone half the time.
 

JayJ

Well-known member
From a trucker's standpoint, we can get away with rolling 62 MPH and the CHP will drive right on bye. In the Bay, I set the cruise at no more than 60 when I'm not in traffic. Due to the on-ramps, many truckers have to be in the second lane from the right. The far right lane is just too much drama. (60, down to 50, back to 60, OMG down to 40, back to 60, etc.....)

I-5 is well designed with plenty of real estate to set up adequate on ramps. Running the length of I-5 in traffic can be tough. Most the time the big trucks can hang out in the #2 lane just fine, but some company drivers are limited to 61 while other owner-ops are behind the 8 ball (sometimes literally!) This delta, combined with exaustion, often leads to last minute lane chages. I tend to wait my turn. I'll drive 55 a mile or so while waiting for a clearing. Whence it's my time, it may take another mile or so to pass the trucks on the right if there are a lot of them.
 
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