Helmet Cams: Would you/do you wear one for personal safety?

[antipathy]

Recent news stories of solo motorcycle crashes leave one wondering if "solo" is used in lieu of "hit & run" only because of lack of evidence. That's what got me thinking about using helmet or bike cams on every ride.

Examples are EBRMC member Aaron Fuller and most recently the SF schoolteacher Bonnie Hansen. Even Barf user Volconism was the victim of a hit & run recently but was lucky enough to have multiple witnesses.

Would using a motorcycle helmet cam serve as sufficient evidence to police, insurance companies or even your loved ones in cases where a cager or some other factor caused you to crash your motorcycle? Would even a fuzzy image or sound of a car caught on tape be considered significant enough to warrant further investigation?

I can't help but think we live in an environment where hit & runs are becoming the norm and witnesses don't always stick around to give statements. The use of a helmet cam in some cases might be prudent in case you are harmed by factors outside your control.

Of course there is no substitute to riding safely but I would hate for an insurance company to deem me at fault for an injury accident just because no one else was there to witness. I would hate for my relatives to wonder wtf happened to me if I were in a coma or worse.

I'd like to know if any barfers use such a setup currently, or if any of you have thought of using a camera for such a purpose? What hardware or software are you currently using?

 

[masameet]

A camera is only useful for evidence if it's pointed in the same direction from where the hit is coming. If the hit is from behind or the side, the rider will still need witnesses.

I've got a video camera but I'm not a daily rider. I love using it. I've had a few cagers cross over the DY into my lane while my camera was rolling. Even videoed some idiot speed through an intersection via the right-hand shoulder when the light turned green for us. :laughing This was in Vallejo, on Sonoma Blvd. at Magazine, right after the 80 exit from the Carquinez Bridge. At the next light I caught up to the driver (probably a stolen Mustang) and recorded his license plate. I should give that video to the Vallejo PD.

 

[Stormdragon]

Where's the 'WTF Gforce talking about, etc' option?

My only concern would be losing control of my 'tape' and having it used against me in a court of law. In reality, I probably would have come out ahead with the insurance and police that day the twit in the Lexus spun out....

 

[Z3n]

I have one, but it's set up for track use.

Honestly, it's a bit of a pain, unless you have everything set up right. If you go on an 2+ hour ride, you're probably going to run out of memory on your card, unless you turn the resolution down, plus you'll have to clear the memory every so often...

It really depends on how dangerous your commute is. If I was in SF, I'd strongly consider it. But I don't commute any more.

 

[Angel-be-Good]

I just got a Creative Vado HD and put it through an inaugural run today with my cheap helmet camera mount. I need to mess with the positioning, but the camera's great--it's got 8gb of on-board memory which is good for two hours of HD video, four hours of reduced quality HD video and eight hours of standard def video. Probably a pretty good option for what you're considering--eight hours is a lot of videos.

 

[Factor5]

I'd love to wear a helmet cam but I can see it to be a pain. You have to keep the battery charged, memory, and it's just another thing that someone could steal.

 

[mosquito]

Since I started riding in August I've wanted to get a video camera set up. It'd be good to have just in case of a hit and run, but also to review what I've done to help me learn.

 

[budbandit]

Photography, still or motion, is more likely to inspire ultimately painful or fatal asshattery on the part of the rider than it is to offer any sort of safety enhancement.

 

[Var]

I just got a Go-Pro Wide for Giftmas. As said above, the only down side is it'll record for an hour based on memory and battery limitations. Also another downside is that most digi-cams are still in the "unaffordable" or "not worth it" price range. One day, I believe it'll be common place to have them on your helmet or mounted to your bike. I'm going to set it up on my bike, but I'll need to carry ONE 2GB SD card and TWO ni-mh AAA batteries for each hour of recording I wanna do.

 

[Sane_Man]

Where's the "This is too Ghey" option?

I don't like "Big Brother", and most definitely wouldn't do it to myself. I've never had any close calls, or no reason to ever need a recording of my actions on my motorcycle, so I say no.

 

[rangefinder]

The terms in which you define it, a helmet cam is not really a "personal safety" item. It's not going to provide any additional safety (unless used in conjunction with skill development and ride reviews). However, I agree that it could be useful as a sort of "black box" type recording device, which ultimately could be used for evidence. I think the ideal system for such a purpose would be a bike-mounted 360 degree camera system with GPS (hmm...sounds like a future BMW option :laughing), but as someone mentioned, it all smacks a bit too much of "Big Brother":thumbdown. However, you do bring up a good point, and, because I do ride solo a lot, I would consider using a camera to record my ride both for evidence and ride review/skill development.

 

[Var]

. I've never had any close calls, or no reason to ever need a recording of my actions on my motorcycle, so I say no.

You've never had a life threatening accident on your motorcycle, and that means you don't need a helmet either. After all the need for one has never existed.

 

[Sane_Man]

You've never had a life threatening accident on your motorcycle, and that means you don't need a helmet either. After all the need for one has never existed.

A helmet is prudent risk management against severe injury, where a helmet cam would be useless unless you are filming a faces of death movie. :laughing

 

[Marlowe]

Given that killing a motorcyclist at worst results in a fine...what's the point?

Let's say they run your ass over. Let's say your cam even catches the action....

Let's say they're even prosecuted...for vehicular manslaughter, fined a little bit, and cut loose. It's not like there's any punishment -- if you want to kill someone; use a car.

You'll be just as dead, whether or not they get their $250 fine and 60 days on probation.

 

[ap430]

we ll check this, in a situation like this. A camera would help LEO/Insurance company/Judge to figure out who was at fault in a accident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXeJjCzxbV0

 

[antipathy]

Sane_Man you are very lucky to live and ride in an environment void of risk and danger, however, it is pretty rude for you to call the idea "ghey." I often wonder if you have any useful content beneath the facade of wisecracks and jpgs.

Marlowe your scenario does not consider that taped evidence of someone "running your ass over" could be gold to a prosecutor for criminal damages not to mention in a civil case where your family or children may receive damages in your wrongful death. Even if you don't care (being dead) it is possible someone cares about you enough to seek justice for you.

...

Back on Topic:
One of the reasons I brought the subject up is to better understand IF helmet cams would be a beneficial safety tool, a tool encouraging one to then ride like a tool, a way to prove fault (or lack thereof) to your insurance company, or just a pain in the ass to hook up and maintain in a practical sense.

I didn't want to bring up the aspect of law enforcement possibly using this footage against you because I don't want this to turn into a LEO bash but it is clearly a concern to some Barfers.

It would help to know from any insurance agents or police officer/chp on Barf if ANY cam footage could help in an accident investigation when the rider is in a coma or cannot remember the events. Personally if I am running a cam I would like to know if I should disclose this to the officer immediately if pulled over or if that will just raise suspicion to him.

Any input from legal eagles, insurance or law enforcement (just opinions, not legal advice) would be appreciated!

 

[Z3n]

Back on Topic:
One of the reasons I brought the subject up is to better understand IF helmet cams would be a beneficial safety tool, a tool encouraging one to then ride like a tool, a way to prove fault (or lack thereof) to your insurance company, or just a pain in the ass to hook up and maintain in a practical sense.

I can't assist on the other legal areas, but I do have to say:

If something like this was really important to you, you could get it rigged so that it wouldn't take more than 10 or so seconds to get it all wired up. The camera setup I use will accept 12v from the bike, so you don't have to stock batteries. You could run it so that all you had to do was drop the recording unit into an enclosure, hit record, and away you go. Or you could have it set up to mount on your helmet...it's more about how much money and effort you want to put into it.

I'm pretty sure that a bit of photographic evidence could have spared me getting found at fault in one of my accidents. (No physical proof that she pulled into my lane). But you also have to be prepared to take responsibility for...speed related indiscretions as well. I'm not quite that mature yet. :laughing

 

[Ozymandias]

A camera is only useful for evidence if it's pointed in the same direction from where the hit is coming. If the hit is from behind or the side, the rider will still need witnesses.

I've got a video camera but I'm not a daily rider. I love using it. I've had a few cagers cross over the DY into my lane while my camera was rolling. Even videoed some idiot speed through an intersection via the right-hand shoulder when the light turned green for us. :laughing This was in Vallejo, on Sonoma Blvd. at Magazine, right after the 80 exit from the Carquinez Bridge. At the next light I caught up to the driver (probably a stolen Mustang) and recorded his license plate. I should give that video to the Vallejo PD.

Hey, I had to pee! Actually that's right around where I live. I HATE passing through that part of town for that very reason. It's like druggie and gang bang central. Only place worse is Georgia and York streets down town. There's been quite a few close calls going through there that I wish I had a camera rolling to turn in to the PD.

 

[Ozymandias]

If you are going to use a camera for safety, I would suggest mounting it to the bike and not to the helmet. Helmet cams show alot of motion due to the body/head moving on the bike. A bike cam is much steadier and would show clearly any change in direction caused by a rear ending or side swiping from a car.

Only thing I would see wrong with it mounted is it's only going to show forward. With a helmet cam you catch whatever you're looking at. Many times you'll be riding along and some jerk will just move over into your lane. Forward facing camera wouldn't catch that but if you're looking to the side from catching it out of the corner of your eye or whatever... you got at least the make and model of the car vs. notta.

 

[Marlowe]

Marlowe your scenario does not consider that taped evidence of someone "running your ass over" could be gold to a prosecutor for criminal damages not to mention in a civil case where your family or children may receive damages in your wrongful death. Even if you don't care (being dead) it is possible someone cares about you enough to seek justice for you.

Criminal damages? Again, the courts tend to side with the cager -- because I chose to ride a motorcycle, as far as they're concerned, I wrote myself off and don't deserve the protection that another cager would. $250 and 60 days isn't unusual -- that wasn't hyperbole.

So let's say my family beats some money out of their insurance company (presuming they are identifiable, found, and insured. If they aren't insured, and don't have any money, there is no gain there.) Few people even carry 100/300k liability policies, and after the lawyers get their cut, it's what, a few tens of thousands, plus maybe a judgment for millions against the cager that cannot be collected because few of them have that kind of money to begin with?

It still doesn't make me any less dead. People cannot be replaced with money, and furthermore, judgments like this don't even make the paper.

It won't stop the next motorcyclist from getting run over -- since nobody will hear about it. It won't stop them from driving aggressively, distracted, or intoxicated. It won't stop them from carrying 25 or 30k in liability insurance, and having no assets to seize.

Forgive me, I understand the desire for justice...I just don't think there is any to be found on our roads without going Mad Max on people.