Good sportsmanship and passing

[christofu]

Opinions please.

If you can execute a pass "cleanly" in race is it always fine to do so?

I've found myself in situations where I've come up beside someone under brakes and found that my angle of entry to the turn is a little tighter than I can manage at normal speed, so I slow it down to get around. To stop the person I just passed from getting back around I've found myself deliberately positioning my bike in such a way as to stop them from diving back under and then I run them wide.

It's a clean, safe pass (no-one is about to collide and crash) but I feel afterwards as though it wasn't very sportsmanlike.

Mostly likely places for me to do this are T7 and (the new) T11 at SP.

Is this something I should be thinking about less?

 

[Holeshot]

That's racing , Fu.

It's exactly what you're supposed to to: pass and block the repass. Sometimes, stuffing guys is dick, depending on the turn, but overall, it's not something you should worry about.

Now, guys that block, or cut across my bow when I'm deep in and expect me to roll off the throttle...they get stuffed every time I can.

You're a racer. You know the difference between passing people and stuffing people. If you're my friend, I'll do my damnest not to stuff ya. If you're not, I'll still do so, but with less patience. If you're someone I've identified as a shitbag racer, I'll stuff ya first chance I get...

If I do stuff someone, or pass questionably, I'll usually find them and say a genuine sorry. No one has ever thought any of these passes were as bad as I did, and most said "hey, it's racing...no problem man".

Ask Solis...I passed him in the dirt...

What you really need to worry about is crashing and taking someone with you. That would piss someone off worse I think!

 

[mheinee]

Re: passing...back when I was racing, I'll use T11 at Sears as an example. A nice block pass would be drafting the the rider in front of you, getting on the brakes the same time he/she would, and then lightly ease off your brakes, coming alongside the rider you are passing, squeezing a little more brake to keep yourself next to the rider you are passing, thereby blocking their ability to turn, until you turn. As long as you both aren't in too deep it always worked beautifully. And if done correctly you should still be able to hold a tight line in the middle of the corner since you haven't rushed in too fast.

I never had any problems with other riders saying that I passed them too aggresively or feeling that they got stuffed.

 

[budman]

IF it is a race...Then DO IT!!! What you describe is fine. Blocking a little to save the place..absolutly!! If you put leather or parts on someone to get by then I would call it a questionable pass by sportmanship standards..but if it is for the win or the money..then that is called "RACING". Don't worry about it..if the guy did not fall..You done fine! :thumbup

If it was a track day then...bad boy!


:smoking

 

[sportbikenight]

If you were riding right behind a person it would mean that you were able to exceed his/her lap times. Therefore you should try to lead for a bit. Do not worry about blocking his/her line to stay in front for that corner. If that person wants the spot back they should take it later.

I would not think twice about it. Sometimes I notice that It takes a wierd line to pass some people in certain corners. Sometimes you have to break up the pace a little to get around... then once your in front you can pull a little space and go back to the faster lines. With my little SV I have to block pass all the time, just to get in front. Once I have the pass I can usually pull some distance, except for the loooong straights. It can be tough to ride a smaller HP bike without block passing.

 

[EastBayDave]

"Block" passing is fine. Taking away the line under braking is not only normal; many times it's the only way to get past someone. If you leave plenty of room & don't run into the other guy, or run them off the track, it's cool- good pass.

Now elbowing, bashing cases/fairings, giving someone a swat, well those are questionable but I must admit to doing those things a couple times. After 10 second-place finishes in a row fustration starts building & then maybe a hair-ball pass is called for?

Hitting your buds kill switch, pinching him on the butt up the backstraight, bumping them up a higher gear w/your right foot going into 7 is kinda hairy & dirty, but fun when you get the double-take as you pass.... :teeth

 

[christofu]

Yes, I think my original question was more about the ethics of making a marginal pass and then deliberately running the other person off the track (to make them back down) to make the pass stick and destroy their drive

 

[MrCrash]

Yes, I think my original question was more about the ethics of making a marginal pass and then deliberately running the other person off the track (to make them back down) to make the pass stick and destroy their drive

I'd block pass, run defensive lines, and "make myself wide" but would never intentionally run someone off the track.

Block passes and running wide protective lines were a common thing when I ran my SV650 in Formula 1, especially at Buttonwillow.

I'd outdrive bigger bikes out of the bus stop, but their motor would prevent me from getting by on the entrance to the Riverside banking. I could carry enough mid corner speed to pull just ahead right around the time the bigger bikes would start to get on the gas to drive out of Riverside, but I couldn't get far enough ahead to take the line away.

So I used my head. Literally. Hang off a little more, stick the old noggin out in front of their front wheel, try and accelerate through that? I didn't think so.

I could stay pinned on the left hander leading up to Magic Mountain, bigger bikes would have to roll off. This let me carry my speed and stay out of striking distance on the brakes into the right hander, I'd block the "motor" line by going curb to curb heading up the hill, apexing on one curb and running it all the way to the right curb on the exit, holding it tight up the hill so no one could take the line.

Down the hill, I'd apex on the right curb and run back out to the left curb (aka the flying Berto bend), gassing back out and driving onto the short chute running wide to the right curb, protecting the inside line on the entrance to the sweeper. If I held that lead into the sweeper, the pass would typically stick and I could put a gap on the rider I passed.

 

[Holeshot]

...Thereby MAKING riders pass you in the dirt!

 

[MrCrash]

...Thereby MAKING riders pass you in the dirt!

Hah, my lines have gotten considerably more conservative since I took time off of racing (thereby adding time to my laps).

Actually, I've been passed in the dirt at Thunderhill before. I was bottled in after the start of a race heading up to the Cyclone, slow riders in front of me, behind me, and to the left side of me. I was on the right hand side curbing leading up to the Cyclone.

Suddenly a Supermotard passes me, flying off the curb and into the dirt going up the hill, brings it back on the track and throws it in to make the Cyclone.

I was laughing my ass off, I had to wait until the exit of Turn 6 to regain my composure and pass him back.

 

[Holeshot]

HAHA!

Did you just call me a "super retard"?

 

[MrCrash]

HAHA!

Did you just call me a "super retard"?

I didn't know you raced a KTM?

I personally thought that move was super ballsy, I got a kick out of it

 

[EastBayDave]

A friend & I were side by side going thru the kink into 7 one AFM raceday, when John Urlich goes flying by in the dirt on the inside left bypassing the kink! Guess he couldn't wait for the braking zone...