Fz-07 Does new exhaust need ECU tuning?

[phakom007]

Hi Riders,

I recently installed a Ramsato full exhaust on my 2015 Yamaha FZ-07 and noticed some youtube videos and forum that talk about ECU tune after this install.

Is it “must do” to flash ECU ? What are the pros and cons of this? Any recommendations , motorcycle shops that can do this or videos that you can share on how i can do this myself?

I am not an expert at motorcycles and this is my first motorcycle and i’ve started doing small maintenance my self and want to be extra careful.

Appreciate your help. TIA

 

[Gravisman]

Your stock ECU is calibrated for the stock exhaust. You probably won’t get anything out of the fancy new exhaust without a reflash, and it might run a little worse. Shops in California likely won’t help you as any exhaust without a catalytic converter is illegal here. If you google around a bit, though, you’ll find shops that you can mail your ECU to be flashed, and even better, you can buy a flashing kit for a Yamaha ECU yourself. Be prepared to drop another $500, mostly because the industry knows that after you already spent $1000+ on that exhaust, they can get another $500 off you for an ECU flash tool to make everything work right

 

[Mellowtonin]

Hi Riders,

I recently installed a Ramsato full exhaust on my 2015 Yamaha FZ-07 and noticed some youtube videos and forum that talk about ECU tune after this install.

Is it “must do” to flash ECU ? What are the pros and cons of this? Any recommendations , motorcycle shops that can do this or videos that you can share on how i can do this myself?

I am not an expert at motorcycles and this is my first motorcycle and i’ve started doing small maintenance my self and want to be extra careful.

Appreciate your help. TIA

For a full aftermarket exhaust system (more than a slip-on), ECU flash is strongly recommended if you don't want the headers to blue (overheat because mixture too lean).
The cheapest way to do so would be for you to remove the ECU and mail it to a reputable technician.

When I had my 2014 FZ-07, after installing Akrapovic Titanium Full system, I sent my ECU to VCyclenut over in Florida. Turn around time was just over 1 week and I was satisfied with the result.

https://www.vcyclenut.com/store/p27/2015-2020_FZ%2FMT_07%2F_XSR_700_ecu_flash_.html

Here is a video on how to remove the ECU (many more on YouTube), should take you no more than half a day (assuming you are completely new at wrenching) and a couple beers. Also, you should have the Yamaha factory manual (can be found free online) on hand to help fill in the gaps:


youtu.be/8t1rIuuuuuQ

Link to the Yamaha Shop Manual:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1056405/Yamaha-2014-Mt-07.html

 

[usedtobefast]

What was the reason you put on that new system? Guessing just for the sound and looks?

How does the bike run now with the new system?

If you feel it runs OK (no issues to resolve) and you just wanted sounds/looks, then the difference between a great tune and what you have is not going to make a significant change in the life of your engine. Not like the engine is going to blow up at 5,000 miles or anything.

If you reflash your ECU to match the exhaust it will run better (smoother, bit more power) and it should run a bit cooler (lean bikes run hotter).

So if someone ran a stock bike for 25,000 miles and someone else ran a bike like yours for 25,000, and someone else ran a bike with exhaust and perfect tune for 25,000 miles ... and then you pulled each engine apart ... and asked a mechanic to look at parts and guess which engine is which ... they might be able to guess right based on carbon build up, pistons/valves appearance. But it isn't going to be like one bike is shot and the other is at perfect specs.

 

[ST Guy]

I thought that modern ECU's could compensate for exhaust changes and the bike would still run correctly. Though to maximize power, with stock or aftermarket exhaust, one would need a retune.

 

[usedtobefast]

Here is a great video of a beginner doing a reflash of his ECU ...


youtu.be/T7trx4Ihx_0

 

[phakom007]

Your stock ECU is calibrated for the stock exhaust. You probably won’t get anything out of the fancy new exhaust without a reflash, and it might run a little worse. Shops in California likely won’t help you as any exhaust without a catalytic converter is illegal here. If you google around a bit, though, you’ll find shops that you can mail your ECU to be flashed, and even better, you can buy a flashing kit for a Yamaha ECU yourself. Be prepared to drop another $500, mostly because the industry knows that after you already spent $1000+ on that exhaust, they can get another $500 off you for an ECU flash tool to make everything work right

Thank you, i will try to pursue the mailing ECU option.
I searched the ECU flash kits and they seem expensive ($300+) for simply two cables.

 

[phakom007]

What was the reason you put on that new system? Guessing just for the sound and looks?

How does the bike run now with the new system?

If you feel it runs OK (no issues to resolve) and you just wanted sounds/looks, then the difference between a great tune and what you have is not going to make a significant change in the life of your engine. Not like the engine is going to blow up at 5,000 miles or anything.

If you reflash your ECU to match the exhaust it will run better (smoother, bit more power) and it should run a bit cooler (lean bikes run hotter).

So if someone ran a stock bike for 25,000 miles and someone else ran a bike like yours for 25,000, and someone else ran a bike with exhaust and perfect tune for 25,000 miles ... and then you pulled each engine apart ... and asked a mechanic to look at parts and guess which engine is which ... they might be able to guess right based on carbon build up, pistons/valves appearance. But it isn't going to be like one bike is shot and the other is at perfect specs.

The stock exhaust sounds very bland and doesn't compliment the FZ-07's performance.I primarily installed this new exhaust for the sound and the simple look and not necessarily performance gains.

I didnt dare to take this out for a long ride yet as this ECU flashing question bothered me a bit.

I will try to mail the ECU and get it flashed.

thanks again for the suggestion.

 

[phakom007]

For a full aftermarket exhaust system (more than a slip-on), ECU flash is strongly recommended if you don't want the headers to blue (overheat because mixture too lean).
The cheapest way to do so would be for you to remove the ECU and mail it to a reputable technician.

When I had my 2014 FZ-07, after installing Akrapovic Titanium Full system, I sent my ECU to VCyclenut over in Florida. Turn around time was just over 1 week and I was satisfied with the result.

https://www.vcyclenut.com/store/p27/2015-2020_FZ%2FMT_07%2F_XSR_700_ecu_flash_.html

Here is a video on how to remove the ECU (many more on YouTube), should take you no more than half a day (assuming you are completely new at wrenching) and a couple beers. Also, you should have the Yamaha factory manual (can be found free online) on hand to help fill in the gaps:


youtu.be/8t1rIuuuuuQ

Link to the Yamaha Shop Manual:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1056405/Yamaha-2014-Mt-07.html

Thank you and i decided to mail my ECU.

This forum is super helpful.

 

[OaklandF4i]

I thought that modern ECU's could compensate for exhaust changes and the bike would still run correctly. Though to maximize power, with stock or aftermarket exhaust, one would need a retune.

I am not an expert on FI, especially the most recent years FI on street bikes. But I have been doing a lot of reading on FI so I can become as competent with FI as I feel with carbs as my new dirtbike is FI..... That said.

From what I have read and understand thus far, many of the the FI systems even with an O2 sensor only operate in closed loop under certain conditions within narrow bands, thus limiting how much and when they can actually compensate fueling, let alone for something like a change to exhaust or intake. For instance, large throttle openings are often in open loop even on systems equipped with an O2 sensor that run on a closed loop during economy steady throttle conditions.

So from my understanding, they still can't fully compensate for an exhaust. This is my understanding thus far, and by no means an expert. Would welcome a correction and or fuller explanation if there are any experts here. :thumbup

 

[DannoXYZ]

Yes, for partial-throttle up to about 75-80%, stock ECUs with O2-sensors can maintain proper mixtures in closed-loop.

But above that, 80-100% WOT, it's open-loop with using values from map with no corrections. Which may or may not be matched to new air-flow pattern after exhaust mod. Most bikes from factory are way rich under WOT for safety anyway, I've seen mostly in 10:1 to 11:1 AFR. Leaning out high-end on factory bike with factory exhaust will typically gain you couple % in power.

Best option is to get wideband-O2 sensor with on-board datalogging. Then you can do some runs at various throttle-openings (i.e. 25%, 50% 75%, 100%) and download data for examination.

Then send your ECU with datalogs to someone to re-program. Heck, really worth it to get software and do it yourself. Then it'll be dialed in perfectly to match your bike. And you can change mapping with all future upgrades as well. Or make multiple maps to go with higher-octane fuels.

Note that there's different "tunes" and behaviors. Is it always for more power like racers want? Most people never race and want a smoother well-behaved bike with snappier throttle-response. This typically means richer idle zones and leaner mid-range with slightly more ignition-advance. Typically highest-power maps are on ragged edge of durability. Engine will feel rough and raw and temperamental. You'll have to treat it gingerly with respect or else it'll bite you!

Easy answer is: try it out and see how it behaves. If it's smooth without any unruly behaviors, then it's fine and just use it as is.

 

[Hooli]

I searched the ECU flash kits and they seem expensive ($300+) for simply two cables.

Bear in mind that this price also includes a flashing license that, once used, it tied to your ecu. I.e., you can only tune your bike with it, and it cannot be used for flashing other ecu's, even if the bike make and model is identical (wasn't always like this though).

As for "mail-in" flashes, that'll get you 90% of the way there, which is satisfactory for the majority of bike owners. A flash will not only alter the fuel tables but also allow modification of other things such as:

– Professional cylinder specific fuel map modification
– Removal of all gear based or speed dependent restrictions, TRE
– Optimized ignition timing maps for 91+ octane
– Reduce Fan Temps
– Disable Injector Decel Cut
– ECU Based Quickshifter Enabled

(The above were straight from the Two Wheel Dyno Works website).

Here's a link for your FZ-07.

I sent my 2018 MT-10's ecu to 2WDW and for a mail-in flash I'm pretty happy. Loads of street miles, three track days and a BARF Rally later and I still have no regrets. I plan on having them do my 2016 R1 this spring as well. Turn-around time is quick (they're up in Washington state), the shop owners are easy helpful and responsive, and for $230 it's quite the bargain. :thumbup

 

[berth]

Most bikes from factory are way rich under WOT for safety anyway...

What does this mean?

 

[DannoXYZ]

WOT-Wide Open Throttle and high-rpms is when the most air is sucked into engine. This places highest compression-pressure inside cylinders. And generates most pressure and heat when mixture is ignited.

This condition is most ripe for pinging/knocking/detonation to occur after spark ignites mixture (pre-ignition is something completely different). Under high-pressure and heat of WOT conditions, intermediate combustion compounds forms. One of these types, radical alkyl groups, are extremely heat & shock sensitive and will auto-ignite on their own. This creates a 2nd flame-front somewhere else in combustion chamber. This 2nd flame-front collides with original one and generates an extremely high-pressure & high-temperature spot in combustion chamber. This collision is heard as an audible pings, similar to shaking popcorn kernels in tin can. If engine is operated under this condition for long, detonation & pinging can burn holes into piston tops and melt valves.

So... even though highest-efficiency occurs at 14.7:1 AFR-air fuel ratio, and is what ECU tries to maintain under partial-throttle operation with O2-sensor feedback (max-power usually occurs around 13.5:1 AFR). However, under high-load 80-100% those AFRs are too hot for most engines tuned for 87-oct. pump petrol. So... pretty much ALL bike manufacturers program ECU to turn off O2-sensor feedback operation under high-load and go with richer 10:1 to 12:1 mixture, which is about 25-30% more petrol (per air-mass) than lower-load operation.

This higher-fuel richer mixture burns cooler, generates a little less power than 14.7:1, but is much more resistant to detonation & knocking. Also if you get bad petrol, or ride in super-hot day, this places engine closer to edge of detonation/knocking. Thus, the pre-programmed high-load zones in factory maps tend to be very rich with extra fuel for safety. Carbs tends to be tuned even richer under WOT than EFI systems.

If you're racing your bike, and can control conditions such as using high-octane petrol (which tends to have more knock-resistant aromatic compounds) and adding extra cooling with larger radiator, you can typically get +5-10% more power by leaning out high-load WOT mixtures. Along with adding couple degrees extra ignition advance.

Anyone remember that '60s hot-rod saying?

 

[berth]

So... pretty much ALL bike manufacturers program ECU to turn off O2-sensor feedback operation under high-load and go with richer 10:1 to 12:1 mixture, which is about 25-30% more petrol (per air-mass) than lower-load operation.

This higher-fuel richer mixture burns cooler, generates a little less power than 14.7:1, but is much more resistant to detonation & knocking

Thanks that was really interesting.

 

[DannoXYZ]

You're most welcome!! :wave:

 

[OaklandF4i]

You're most welcome!! :wave:

:thumbup Great info and thanks for taking the time write type this out.