Electric Assisted Bicycle Vs. Electric Moped on BART

[madsen203]

Hi all!

So bikes are allowed on BART trains permitting space is available. I would assume that electric assisted bicycles are also allowed as they take nearly same space, no gas fumes or anything, and are, by regulation, still a class 2 bike.

How likely would one be able to transport an electric "moped" on BART? It consists of the same structure: wheels, brakes, seat, handlebars, pedals/chain, and a battery like electric assisted bicycles. The "eco" mode, basically the street legal, bike path legal, should equate it to a class 2 bike. It has motorcycle/moped like qualities, but has everything that an electric assisted bicycle has.

My thoughts are, how quickly would I drum up trouble bringing an Onyx electric moped on BART to assist with my commute? The website states no mopeds allowed on BART but that would be under the previous assumption that they were talking about fossil fuel motorized versions and not the lighter weight, cleaner, electric mopeds. It also states that scooters are not allowed on BART but that would be the assumption it is talking about Vespa's--and not the new found Bird/Lime type scooters that can be hand carried.

Thoughts, opinions?

Onyx:

A similarly equipped electric assisted bicycle:

We can't use having gears as an argument either as they allow "fixies" on BART. What would be the determination of how this bike would be identified? Bicycles can also be equipped with lights, horns, and luggage which would take nearly as much space and put the weight of the bikes very close to each other.

 

[sckego]

Does it have a VIN or license plate?

 

[madsen203]

Does it have a VIN or license plate?

It does not. It falls into the class II bicycle as the "eco" mode keeps it 20mph and under. The other, faster, modes are sold as "off road use only." It is not registered through DMV nor is insurance required.

I sent a message to BART through their website

Good day!

I have an electric assisted bike I commute on that I would like to confirm that I can bring on BART provided there if space available on the train. The bicycle meets the Class II regulation which means it follows the rules of a normal bicycle, can be pedal operated, has a single battery and electric propulsion motor activated at the handle. It is a normal 2 wheel bicycle, but due to the battery and design, weighs nearly 100 pounds like many other electric assisted bicycles on the market. For safety on the street, it does have a switchable light in the front and rear for commuting on bike lanes along side of traffic. Would it be permissible to travel with this bike on BART? What are the limitations in your policy regarding electric assisted bikes?

Thank you for your time!

I'm hoping that the wording would prevent any qualms if ever confronted. This would be for my wife who commutes to SF and she is not as bold or willing to stand up to someone wrongly accusing her of violating BART's rules and regulations.

To me, it seems that it meets all the criteria of an electric assisted bicycle--but is sold with the "moped" title--I think mostly as a marketing strategy to separate it away from the other electric assisted bicycles that allow full motor use without pedaling.

 

[madsen203]

Scooters and Moped

BART does not permit scooters or mopeds on trains. The California Vehicle Code (under section 21113) prohibits the circulation of all vehicles on rapid transit district grounds, except where the District has given permission. Electric scooters and mopeds are classified as vehicles, not bicycles. Under Vehicle Code section 670, a "vehicle" is "any device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn on a highway, excepting a device moved by human power."
Individuals bringing a scooter or moped on a BART train may be cited for an infraction, as violating section 21113 of the Vehicle Code.

Bicycles are allowed on Highways--does that make the vehicles under CVC 670? If said "vehicle" is permitted in the bike lane and on bike paths, would it not fall under the classification of a Class II bicycle? I guess the million dollar question is: Are there any electric bikes that can run solely on the motor without pedaling from the rider?

 

[sckego]

Electric bicycles are not considered to be vehicles, they are bicycles. Per CA law, the breakdows are as follows:

As you can see, Type 2 e-bikes are fine being purely throttle operated, but you're going to have trouble if the top speed is >20mph. I don't think "but you CAN ride it slow like a Type 2!" is going to fly. But then again, how would they know?

 

[madsen203]

Electric bicycles are not considered to be vehicles, they are bicycles. Per CA law, the breakdows are as follows:

As you can see, Type 2 e-bikes are fine being purely throttle operated, but you're going to have trouble if the top speed is >20mph. I don't think "but you CAN ride it slow like a Type 2!" is going to fly. But then again, how would they know?

It is sold as having a switch that limits bike to 20mph and other modes are off-road use only.

I received a response from BART that suggests that I have to attain a permit:

https://www.bart.gov/guide/epamd.

Per your image, if limited to 20mph, it would fall into a class 2 and should be allowed. With the permit, it should be totally allowed assuming there is space on the train car for you and the bike.

 

[madsen203]

To follow up and close the thread--I contacted BART and filled out the permit application. They called today to verify details and gave a stamp of approval for the permit to allow carrying the Onyx RCR bike on to BART train following normal protocol as they do for other bicycles.

Sweet!

 

[bojangle]

To follow up and close the thread--I contacted BART and filled out the permit application. They called today to verify details and gave a stamp of approval for the permit to allow carrying the Onyx RCR bike on to BART train following normal protocol as they do for other bicycles.

Sweet!

Nice! Did they give you some sort of paperwork or something? I'd carry proof of approval with me if I were you. That way you have something to show an officer or attendant in case they try to deny you access.

 

[madsen203]

Nice! Did they give you some sort of paperwork or something? I'd carry proof of approval with me if I were you. That way you have something to show an officer or attendant in case they try to deny you access.

They do. They mail out a permit. I'll upload a pic when I receive it. I don't even have the moped yet...but it was a free service and I wanted to see if it was possible. This should be valid for some time so in the event that my wife decides she wants to do it, then she will have it ready.

I'd think the biggest concern is wheeling the bike on/off bart train. It's "light" at 120#, but my wife is smaller and not as strong as me and when you're trying to balance it and hold it while on a crowded moving train, I don't think it'll work as well as a 40# bike. With the range it has, you could *almost* ride it to/fro the city. The problem is getting through the bottle neck, that is, Caldecott tunnel. Riding from Orinda to Berkeley is sketch (i.e.: no bike lane, erratic drivers trying to shave minutes from commute) and would be a huge battery zapper going through the hill. She would definitely have to charge it at work to ensure enough juice to make it home. Lastly, the other challenge: the elevators in SF are EFFIN gross! And you would absolutely have to use an elevator.

 

[Frame Maker]

to OP, keep in mind that perception may come into play even though your "bike" is perfectly legal to bring on BART.

Case in point... several years ago BART had rules regulating that all bicycles must be of a "folding type" to bring on BART during commute hours. So I purchased a Montague Boston (picture below) since its a folding bike, but looks like a normal bike. All good... so I thought. I can't tell you how many times I was hassled by BART agents (I would typically pass through the station with it in riding configuration, then fold it once on the platform). Once I even had BART police track me down. I think they were a bit embarrassed (and annoyed) when they discovered my bike was perfectly legal.

Anyway, you'll probably be fine, but do expect questions and possible scrutiny.

 

[madsen203]

Received the laminated card from BART allowing to transport an electric mobility device on board of the train following the same rules as bicycles.

At this point, it might just be a pipe dream. I decided to pursue it to see if they would allow it and what the outcome would be. All in all, less than a week from submission to permit in hand.

I'd be happy to argue with BART all day long about the legality of it but I'm sure the first time my wife gets hassled, it'll turn her off to doing again in the future--even though it's permitted.

 

[kurth83]

Saw a guy today keeping up with traffic on foothill on an ebike, was doing 40+. It was a fat-tire model. Onyx in SF (picured earlier in this thread) makes a 7 hp 60 mph ebike for $2300. With that I almost don't need a moto at all. However, lifting a 120 lb onyx rcr onto a caltrain car is probably not something I would want to do as a daily commute.

 

[HadesOmega]

Yeah it has a twist throttle and pedals and max speed under 20mph that falls under Class 2 Ebike. Problem is it looks like a motorcycle =P Like someone mentioned above they'll probably give you a hard time with it.

 

[Smash Allen]

The issue is huffing that thing up and down stairs as you can’t take the escalator without being a fuckwad and the elevators are either full of shit, piss, or not working.

 

[madsen203]

The issue is huffing that thing up and down stairs as you can’t take the escalator without being a fuckwad and the elevators are either full of shit, piss, or not working.

This is the truth of the matter and would be the ultimate discouragement of utilizing this. Additionally, those with disabilities get priority so if there is a line of disable folk, you are F'd.

Per BART policy, you cannot take a bike up, or any mobility device for that matter, up the escalators. I wonder if you could lightly throttle it up the stairs along side you. It would be tricky with a million people rushing up and down and it being 120#.

 

[DucatiHoney]

Per BART policy, you cannot take a bike up, or any mobility device for that matter, up the escalators. I wonder if you could lightly throttle it up the stairs along side you. It would be tricky with a million people rushing up and down and it being 120#.

I picture standing behind this thing on the escalator as you're gently revving the motor: me giving you the hairy eyeball and a "really?" look as you sheepishly give me a toothy grin. :laughing

 

[HadesOmega]

It would be better to just get one of those folding electric scooter or folding electric bike.