Downshifting into first

[stephanotis]

I've had two different answers on this question from rider friends plus a non-committal reply, so am looking for help from fellow BARFers!

When approaching a stop, is it OK (in terms of mechanics, wear on the bike) to downshift into first and then use the brakes? Like if I'm in second, is it better to stop with the brakes then shift to first or the opposite order. Or does it matter?

 

[DTM74]

Typically, when I approach a stop/intersection, I shift to 1st gear just before I bring the motorcycle to a stop and put my foot down.

 

[stephanotis]

Thanks. I should have added that the argument for NOT doing that was you wind up riding the clutch and wearing it out faster.

But if it's no big deal then I think it makes more sense in terms of safety (already being in 1st).

 

[afm199]

I've had two different answers on this question from rider friends plus a non-committal reply, so am looking for help from fellow BARFers!

When approaching a stop, is it OK (in terms of mechanics, wear on the bike) to downshift into first and then use the brakes? Like if I'm in second, is it better to stop with the brakes then shift to first or the opposite order. Or does it matter?

It doesn't matter. What matters is that you remain in full control of the bike. In some cases, downshifting first will be appropriate ( coming down a hill to a stop sign ) and in some, approaching a stop on a flat, it might be appropriate to shift as you stop.

 

[Aware]

Depends on your bike, gearing, speeds, engine characteristics, exact circumstances (rolling stop? Braking from high speed? city commuting? etc)

Generally speaking, I'd expect to be in 2nd right before I stop, and either snag 1st at the last moment, or click into 1st once stopped.

If you are slipping your clutch because you hit 1st too soon, then maybe you create unnecessary clutch wear. But if you are making clean gear changes, clutch wear is likely negligible.

 

[stephanotis]

Great, thanks. Still working on (down)shifting in general, this makes me feel much better about how many to click down.

 

[motomania2007]

Most important thing about stopping is being consistent.

All your stops should be as similar to a quick stop as possible. Therefore, when you do a quick stop you are well practiced.

I am not saying always do a quick stop, you can, but that is not necessary.

A quick stop uses both brakes and you are in first gear before you stop and you used maximum braking without skidding either wheel.

Therefore the only difference between a regular stop is using increasing pressure on the front brake as you slow with maximum pressure at the point the bike stops, without skidding either wheel.

 

[budman]

Steph.

I like smooth and simple. I will approach a stop in second and pull in the clutch slipping the bike into 1st as I continue to brake to a stop. I generally don't let my clutch out in first just because it is a bit herky- jerker.

To be direct to your question I don't think it has a big affect on the mechanical life of the machine, but it might have a very small percentage.

Smooth.. two wheels = two O's

 

[HeatXfer]

Brakes are cheaper than clutches & transmissions. I'll often shift into neutral and brake to a red light. I'll shift to 1st when I approach a stop sign. An intersection with a signal might mean I'm waiting a bit; at a stop sign waits are usually minimal.

 

[stephanotis]

Ah, perhaps that's the actual crux of the matter. I have already (we're talking three journeys out on the street in my life) noticed that I "hover" at stop signs and don't come to a complete stop, feet down, etc. California roll anyone?

But stop lights do require a complete stop and wait. Not to boil it down to that, but if I combine what everyone said here, there are nuances between these two types of stops depending on other factors as well.

Very cool! Thank you, that helped tons. And always shout my way if I didn't actually get it.

 

[Aware]

I'll often shift into neutral and brake to a red light.

Just. No.

 

[budman]

Steve.

Best to explain for Steph.

I agree BTW.

 

[David919]

I always like to be in gear, so if needed I can just move, for what ever reason. Like budman, to avoid the jerky jerky, I just pull the clutch in at the low rpm end of second, while I roll to a stop. I've been told, LEO look for the wheel to stop turning, not the foot on the ground, but that may vary by officer. It is actually possible to do both, stop without a foot down and put a foot down without stopping.

 

[felixthecat]

I will approach a stop in second and pull in the clutch slipping the bike into 1st as I continue to brake to a stop. I generally don't let my clutch out in first just because it is a bit herky- jerker.

This 100%. Mechanically speaking it's probably the worst relative to other options, but it affords me a smooth ride while still allowing me to full stop in the correct gear or gun the throttle and take off if that's the option.

On another note, I'd recommend you don't do California rolls ever, but especially so when you're new. Making full stops forces you to scan the environment before taking off again. Also, it gets you comfortable with putting your foot down so you can do it in any scenario. Coming to a full-stop at a four-way stop intersection without putting your foot down only to have a car completely ignore it and cross your path? Foot down. Coming to a stop on wet pavement only to have your front tire start sliding out on the floor lettering? Foot down. And etc.

 

[Aware]

Steve.

Best to explain for Steph.

I agree BTW.

I am continually shocked by what basic knowledge is not required to get a motorcycle license. It is bad enough how ignorant car drivers are, yet since most will never drive stick, I at least see how they can survive with such ignorance.

Don't select neutral and coast to a stop.

Don't pull in the clutch and coast to a stop.

Don't coast period.

Disengaging drive removes significant control and changes the general dynamics of a motorcycle. It's not just poor form, it is dangerous because it removes the ability to control speed and it takes time to correct. Often we have less than a quarter of a second to respond to changing circumstances, and engaging gears will eat up that time.

 

[budman]

OK. I agree with most of that and perhaps 100%. Maybe I am reading it a bit wrong.
Meaning I will pull in the clutch and brake to a stop. Is that coasting??

Not It my mind.

 

[Aware]

OK. I agree with most of that and perhaps 100%. Maybe I am reading it a bit wrong.
Meaning I will pull in the clutch and brake to a stop. Is that coasting??

Not It my mind.

If you travel out of gear for more than the distance it takes to change gear, that's coasting.

You have to eventually pull in the clutch before you stop. How far before you stop? Closer to "the last possible moment" than "for the last few seconds". "The last few seconds" is coasting.

Better?

 

[NorCalBusa]

Don't coast period.

Then why was Jamison Creek Rd ever built? :x

 

[EastBayDave]

IF you ride a KAW, all the latest bikes have the "Auto-Neutral-Finder." If your new & riding one, investigate it. Makes stop & go's much easier/less embarrassing.

Like mentioned above, & I know the area (dangerous intersection vs safe? intersection), dependent on approach speed I may just shift from 2nd to neutral & stop if it's a long light. When it's about to change, go clutch & into 1st, checking for red light runners FIRST before leaving the safety of cars on each side.

(I say ^^^that because I've been hit twice not paying attention & just taking off w/o checking for late red light runners. One time getting hit by 2 cars running the light! Derp, my bad. ) :wtf

As your new, try all the methods mentioned. You will soon find the one your comfortable with, use it. Safety leaving the line should be everyone's priority; one of my mentioned 2 hit&runs above, I got a broken wrist & bent bike...as they flew off...:thumbdown

FWIW, IMHO,

-ebdaddyo

 

[Enchanter]

Kawasaki got rid of their auto neutral finder many years ago.

As a collective, we (seasoned motorcyclists) should stop teaching more advanced skills to newer riders. The risk of doing so is multifaceted. First and foremost is that we may be teaching them an inappropriate (or bad) habit. Just because we do it, doesn't mean it is right. Second, there is a logical progression to learning and rushing the learning process is risky. New learners need to MASTER the basics before moving on.

Lets use math as an example:
Addition is taught and mastered (mostly) before subtraction.
Then subtraction before multiplication.
Multiplication before division.
And so on, and so on.

Moving to later skills, without becoming proficient in the basics just promotes mistakes (and lack of confidence).

As it applies to this case:
The OP should MASTER getting the motorcycle into 1st gear before coming to a stop. New riders frequently fail to shift out of higher gear when stopping, and this will complicate leaving a stop. This is high risk and high stress in traffic. Same goes for shifting to neutral prior to, or after stopping.

stephanotis:
Squeezing the clutch lever in does not wear the clutch.
When approaching a stop, apply the brakes and then squeeze the clutch once you are closer to the stop. You do not need to squeeze the clutch just because you are braking. Once you are closer to the place you want to stop, begin downshifting. You do not need to ease out the clutch after each shift.

It is important to shift to first gear prior to coming to a stop. It is easier to do so when the motorcycle is moving.

Please practice stopping and not rolling thru. The more you stop, the better you will become (and right now you need the practice). As was previously stated, it also allows you to better scan the area for hazards.

Do not shift into neutral as you roll up to the stop, it can be problematic for new riders to get back into gear if they see a risky situation develop and need to immediately react to it.