Difference between falling into a turn and simply falling over

[Audacious Nick]

I have noticed that when I dive into a corner I get the feeling that my bike is falling over. Now I am not sure whether it's simply the characteristics of the BT016s, or that my bike is actually going to lowside. Since I don't want to find out the hard way, I decrease the lean angle and exit a little wider.

I am curious how I can tell if I am simply noticing the tendency for these tires to want to drop into the turn, or if the bike is going to go down.
And I feel no tire sliding, simply a feeling that the bike wants to drop over. It's a similar feeling to that of one of those rides which drop you down when you least expect it.

 

[afm199]

How old are the tires? The moment the rear squares off and the front wears on the sides, the effect is exactly that, a sudden transition from upright to leaned over.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Are you keeping your head vertical or tilting it in with the turn as well? If you tilt it over, the fluid in your inner ear sloshes around giving you a feeling of falling (it's really a combo/conflict of visual clues and the fluid in your ear, but this description will work. For more info, Google it along with aviation or flying- its a known phenom with pilots in clouds). Try keeping your head straight up and down regardless of the bank angle and let us know if that is helpful.

edit: http://www.pilotfriend.com/aeromed/medical/vertigo.htm

 

[eddiet204]

I have noticed that when I dive into a corner I get the feeling that my bike is falling over. Now I am not sure whether it's simply the characteristics of the BT016s, or that my bike is actually going to lowside. Since I don't want to find out the hard way, I decrease the lean angle and exit a little wider.

I am curious how I can tell if I am simply noticing the tendency for these tires to want to drop into the turn, or if the bike is going to go down.
And I feel no tire sliding, simply a feeling that the bike wants to drop over. It's a similar feeling to that of one of those rides which drop you down when you least expect it.

Check your tire pressure. If the pressure is good, then bin the tires and get a new set.

 

[louemc]

All of the above plus, if your talking about that green bike with the long forks, and screwed up chassis geometry (like a chopper with extended forks has) then You created your own problem.

 

[Audacious Nick]

How old are the tires? The moment the rear squares off and the front wears on the sides, the effect is exactly that, a sudden transition from upright to leaned over.

They are about 4k miles old. And I have noticed this falling into corners before I even started the motard project, so I can firmly say it's not that.

 

[CaptCrash]

4 grand is a lot of miles on a sport tire...

 

[louemc]

Humm, If you can't take the correct advice, then there isn't any point in mentioning the use of the throttle to support your bike either. :teeth

 

[Banjoboy]

Hummm, hard to say what's going on with your bike, but I intentionally set my bikes up so they "fall" into the corner. (It's more pronounced at lower speeds) If you lower the front, and raise the rear, (ride height/pre-load) your bike will have more of a tendency to fall into the corner. I like it, cuz then I can get on the gas early, and the bike doesn't want to run wide.

Good luck,

 

[Banjoboy]

Oh yeah, I see (over in da photo section) that you put different forks on. Yep ya dun bunged up yer geometry, Homey. Some how you need to raise the front and/or lower the rear, for the thing to turn properly. If yer lucky you can just stiffen the front springs, or add pvc spacers? Or ya may just have ta put the stock forks back on?

Good luck with that!

 

[Enchanter]

Since this is a mechanical issue, the thread has been moved.

In my experience, 2 things cause the feeling that you are describing: worn tires (specifically the front), and the trail of the motorcycle. I think it is merely a coincidence that you felt it before you modified your motorcycle. Many, many, stock motorcycles do this.

I adjust/change my motorcycles to eliminate their tendency to fall into the turns. As was said by one poster already, it is a combination of factors that come together to cause this: rake, trail, ride height, and tires. Your modifications have changed all of these dimensions/settings. If you are lucky, it will be simply a matter of adjusting the ride height. Based on what I've seen in your other thread, I'd guess that your motorcycle is too high in the front, and too low in the back. The most simple way of lowering the front is to slide the forks up in the triple-clamps. On a normal streetbike, 5-10mm tends to cause some pretty drastic changes. On your bike, it is going to be a total guess as to how much to move the forks. There is a very good chance that you will not be able to eliminalte the tendency to fall into the turns.

Remember that you don't get something for nothing. Raising the forks in the clamps also reduces stability at higher speeds. That may be something that you discover when it's too late to recover from it.

 

[Ironbutt]

Hmm... I'd say it's the tires and you're not going to fall over.. it'll fall to a point and then settle in.. deeper than your're used to.. It's a good feeling after you figure it out and get it consistently.. a leap(drop) of faith you could call it.. Go with it and stay on the gas, weight on the outside peg.. that way if it starts to kick out you can weight more gas more and ride it out..

 

[louemc]

Since this is a mechanical issue, the thread has been moved.

In my experience, 2 things cause the feeling that you are describing: worn tires (specifically the front), and the trail of the motorcycle. I think it is merely a coincidence that you felt it before you modified your motorcycle. Many, many, stock motorcycles do this.

I adjust/change my motorcycles to eliminate their tendency to fall into the turns. As was said by one poster already, it is a combination of factors that come together to cause this: rake, trail, ride height, and tires. Your modifications have changed all of these dimensions/settings. If you are lucky, it will be simply a matter of adjusting the ride height. Based on what I've seen in your other thread, I'd guess that your motorcycle is too high in the front, and too low in the back. The most simple way of lowering the front is to slide the forks up in the triple-clamps. On a normal streetbike, 5-10mm tends to cause some pretty drastic changes. On your bike, it is going to be a total guess as to how much to move the forks. There is a very good chance that you will not be able to eliminalte the tendency to fall into the turns.

Remember that you don't get something for nothing. Raising the forks in the clamps also reduces stability at higher speeds. That may be something that you discover when it's too late to recover from it.

Exactly (and well detailed). Even from stock (in this case ZX-10R) forks location, dropping the clamps down the forks 10 mm is a dramatic (in my case improvement) of the bikes handling in the hit a picked line and hold it.

Like snap to the side of the road to avoid an on coming car that is way over the center, and hold that line on the edge of the road, without going off the road.
And that ain't easy when the side of the road is a broken edge and wandering around old road. So the improvement, making it easier, is very welcome.

First put a Scotts damper on...Then there is no downside. I do some pretty commotion inducing riding, and there is no loss of stability, in this.

Every part of the bike plays a part, and has to do it's job. The Pireli Diablo Corsa III's are a vital player in this, as well.

 

[Audacious Nick]

Like I was saying, I am only now posting this. I noticed this back when the bike was stock, it doesn't do it right now.

 

[afm199]

Hummm, hard to say what's going on with your bike, but I intentionally set my bikes up so they "fall" into the corner. (It's more pronounced at lower speeds) If you lower the front, and raise the rear, (ride height/pre-load) your bike will have more of a tendency to fall into the corner. I like it, cuz then I can get on the gas early, and the bike doesn't want to run wide.

Good luck,

It's not a fix all. The more you slam the front the twitchier the bike becomes. Do it enough and it will be headshake/tank slap prone. You also put the radiator in danger of damage from hitting the fender and the forks from slider hitting triple on conventional forks.

 

[911NeverForget]

Tire Size

I read about this recently in sportrider magazine. A guy was having this same problem because he had on a tire that was too large squeezed onto to small of a rim. It makes the tire bowe out more than normal. Check your rim and then check the right sized tire to put on it. Never want to use a fatter tire becuase it actually causes less grip.

 

[jraice]

I'd imagine its the worn edges of the BT-016 as I had that problem but you say you have 4,000 miles on them... Mine lasted barely over half that... It takes aggressive riding to get the edges worn to the point of feeling like this.

My Pilot Road 2's did it as well.

You'll be leaned over and it'll dip all the sudden like it is lowsiding. Its twitchy. Not a good feeling.