bummer Low Side on Grizzly

[louemc]

This thread was a study in what shouldn't be done on two wheels.

It didn't get discussed freely on the crash analysis section.

This touches on all aspects of riding, especially with computer managed controls.

This makes it "general"

The biffed bike had ABS and Traction Control turned on...But...was overwhelmed.

Anyone feel like addressing this?

 

[danate]

lol Lou. The bike in question was being ridden way too fast into the turn with rider not paying attention, well past the point of any kind of ABS or traction control assistance. That was the conclusion of the crash analysis. It certainly doesn't warrant a Lou's Technology Roast (brought to you by Dementia).

 

[caideN]

No electronic is going to help if you jump off the bike.

 

[boney]

Nobody said any of that would keep a rider from making a bad decision and crashing.

If that's the point you're trying to make, then you made it. The rest is moot.

 

[BMW]

Personally speaking I'm glad to read what you have to say Lou. My bike does have nannies but I'm shopping for a steering damper thanks to you.

Thanks for your consistency and thick-skin!

 

[clutchslip]

It didn't get discussed freely on the crash analysis section.......
Anyone feel like addressing this?

Take me and others off ignore. I addressed it plenty in the original thread, with maps, pics, and middle finger to the knee puckers on the street.

..... That was the conclusion of the crash analysis. It certainly doesn't warrant a Lou's Technology Roast (brought to you by Dementia).

:laughing

 

[GAJ]

lol Lou. The bike in question was being ridden way too fast into the turn with rider not paying attention, well past the point of any kind of ABS or traction control assistance. That was the conclusion of the crash analysis. It certainly doesn't warrant a Lou's Technology Roast (brought to you by Dementia).

/ thread.

 

[angelsndevils]

Although in this case the rider was just spacing out I feel that the over computerization of the newer bikes hide the small mistakes that help a rider to learn when they do little things wrong. When the rider doesn't learn from the smaller mistakes (oh shit moments) they get fucked up when they take the next step to the big mistakes. Those little slips and wiggles that the computer hides are the little slips and wiggles that slow down a green rider by letting him know he has done something wrong or is pushing his limits.

 

[louemc]

Although in this case the rider was just spacing out I feel that the over computerization of the newer bikes hide the small mistakes that help a rider to learn when they do little things wrong. When the rider doesn't learn from the smaller mistakes (oh shit moments) they get fucked up when they take the next step to the big mistakes. Those little slips and wiggles that the computer hides are the little slips and wiggles that slow down a green rider by letting him know he has done something wrong or is pushing his limits.

:thumb up My sentiments exactly...Thanks for saying it :thumbup

 

[louemc]

Personally speaking I'm glad to read what you have to say Lou. My bike does have nannies but I'm shopping for a steering damper thanks to you.

Thanks for your consistency and thick-skin!

:cool In your shopping...I hope a Euro source has a mounting kit for the Ohlins rotary....Or Scotts has the mounting kit.

Both dampers, are the same damper, just different logo on them.

They are the best by a rather large margin.

They (thanks to the valve system) do the job, when the job needs doing.
They don't hamper your input with restrictions...When the job doesn't need doing.

When Ya need the assistance...Only the best is good enough. :afm199

 

[latindane]

!

This thread was a study in what shouldn't be done on two wheels.

It didn't get discussed freely on the crash analysis section.

This touches on all aspects of riding, especially with computer managed controls.

This makes it "general"

The biffed bike had ABS and Traction Control turned on...But...was overwhelmed.

Anyone feel like addressing this?

The rider was off the brakes and off the throttle at the time of the crash, so ABS and TC had nothing to do with it. Let me give you an analogy of this thread:

Dude installs handlebars and scotts dampeNEr on his bike. Loops it while popping a wheelie. Some guy who doesn't like handlebars or dampers posts:
"This just shows how bad it is for your riding to put handlebars and a scotts damper (since they didn't help this one dude in a situation where their presence is completely irrelevant)"

 

[redtail]

The biffed bike had ABS and Traction Control turned on...But...was overwhelmed.

Are you suggesting that people's expectation of ABS/TC is that they will never crash a bike so equipped? That is extremely naive to think that any rider aid would stop a motorcycle from crashing, few people believe that and those that do, are gravely misinformed.

People that point to a crash of a bike with ABS/TC as proof that it doesn't really work or is just a panacea are equally naive.

 

[ThumperX]

Are you suggesting that people's expectation of ABS/TC is that they will never crash a bike so equipped? That is extremely naive to think that any rider aid would stop a motorcycle from crashing, few people believe that and those that do, are gravely misinformed.

People that point to a crash of a bike with ABS/TC as proof that it doesn't really work or is just a panacea are equally naive.

More and more we are seeing bikes with ABS, Traction Control, and other electronics that make the bikes more capable/predictable/ with respect to their safety and handling; however, I have witnessed many frightening displays of overconfidence as a result of these features. (I work for a local rental company.)
It is a bit frightening talking to a person and hearing his misinterpretation as to what these features do for him as the rider.

what a shit thread

That's helpful how?

 

[redtail]

More and more we are seeing bikes with ABS, Traction Control, and other electronics that make the bikes more capable/predictable/ with respect to their safety and handling; however, I have witnessed many frightening displays of overconfidence as a result of these features. (I work for a local rental company.)

Electronics didn't invent over confidence, it existed long before, in the daze of two strokes and ignition points. I understand the naiveness born out of ignorance, but its just that, nothing more.

 

[ThumperX]

Electronics didn't invent over confidence, it existed long before, in the daze of two strokes and ignition points. I understand the naiveness born out of ignorance, but its just that, nothing more.

Completely agree, but then, the $25K bike winds up in a tree and the rider says the traction control didn't kick in :dunno
All I can say is that there seems to be a belief amongst some of those that can afford it, that the electronics replace the skill. IMHO I think that the electronics enhance skill but do not provide it.

 

[louemc]

^^^^ Again...My sentiments exactly. :thumb up

The bikers brain has to be right. The terms of defining that, are too vague though.

The eyes have to see, tell the brain what needs to be done, muscles tell the bike what to do, bike does it.

All in a changing set of conditions.

If the biker can't do the basics..
The Computer that can't see ahead, and taylor the controls to what is ahead...
Doesn't have the abilities.. the sales/marketing dept, is conning the customer with, in the "this will prevent" Hype.

 

[boney]

^^^^ Again...My sentiments exactly. :thumb up

The bikers brain has to be right. The terms of defining that, are too vague though.

The eyes have to see, tell the brain what needs to be done, muscles tell the bike what to do, bike does it.

All in a changing set of conditions.

If the biker can't do the basics..
The Computer that can't see ahead, and taylor the controls to what is ahead...
Doesn't have the abilities.. the sales/marketing dept, is conning the customer with, in the "this will prevent" Hype.

So then, pretty much what I said in post 4. Maybe a lot more words but the same nonetheless.

 

[clutchslip]

The rider was off the brakes and off the throttle at the time of the crash, so ABS and TC had nothing to do with it. Let me give you an analogy of this thread:

Dude installs handlebars and scotts dampeNEr on his bike. Loops it while popping a wheelie. Some guy who doesn't like handlebars or dampers posts:
"This just shows how bad it is for your riding to put handlebars and a scotts damper (since they didn't help this one dude in a situation where their presence is completely irrelevant)"

Very nice post that speaks to the heart of the particular issue.

what a shit thread

Thanks for the contribution to the obvious, helmet-shorts.

Come-on, lou, you can do it. Be a team player. Some of us actually know how to ride AND talk about it. Many keep hoping you will succumb to the obvious ...... obviously.

 

[Hooli]

This thread = :facepalm

 

[clutchslip]

Oh, thanks. Another captain obvious. You will receive your interwebz reward in a brown paper bag, within the month.