Bicycle Mechanics of BARF, I need some assistance

[wilit]

So my kid's mountain bike freewheel gearset fell apart and I'm trying to get it back together. The inner ring (with the 2 pin indents) loosened up and the entire gearset came off the freewheel hub. In the process it dumped half of the bearings out. I need to get that inner ring out, but there's a splined outer ring in place that I can't seem to budge. That outer ring is a 12 spline 32mm diameter and I can't seem to find a tool that fits it. I locked the gearset into a vise and I tried tapping the ring with a punch and hammer, but I can't seem to get it to budge. Any ideas?

 

[afm199]

Check ebay, freehub cassetes and freewheels are cheapo

 

[bobl]

Check ebay, freehub cassetes and freewheels are cheapo

This. I once spent over an hour with the same problem. Little tiny ball bearings all over the place, and still not all the way apart. I finally gave up and went to the local bike shop, and bought a brand new one for less that 20 bucks. You can find them even cheaper on ebay. The proper tools to dissamble them cost more than the replacement.

 

[m0t0_ryder]

You need a freewheel spline tool.
Like this...



They are relatively inexpensive.
I have several but am in south bay.

 

[wilit]

You need a freewheel spline tool.
Like this...

View attachment 540907

They are relatively inexpensive.
I have several but am in south bay.

None of those are 32mm. They're 22-23 mm. I have the FR1.3 and FR7 already.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Bearing cap is reverse-threaded.

 

[ctwo]

:thumbup

 

[auntiebling]

Just looking at the 2nd largest gear it's time for new sprockets and chain anyway, or at least theach the kid to shift :laughing

 

[zelig]

Lots of good info here if you don't mind digging a bit:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html

Just looking at the 2nd largest gear it's time for new sprockets and chain anyway, or at least theach the kid to shift :laughing

That was my first thought too, but upon closer inspection it looks like the ramps are aligning with the backlighting in a way that makes them look heavily worn.

I can relate to wanting to get this thing reinstalled if it's still got life left in it, but if there's loose bearings everywhere I am not sure the genie can be put back in this bottle.

 

[DannoXYZ]

I'm not even sure how this happened as freewheels don't just come apart. I managed bike-shop in Santa Barbara for 10-yrs and have never seen one just fall apart. Usually they seize up with rust.

Note that this is an old freewheel 6-spd design upgraded to hold an extra cog. There's lockring on end of cog-stack that threads onto body to hold extra cog on. I suspect OP tried to remove cog-stack for whatever reason and unscrewed bearing-cap instead of cog-stack lockring. The cogs are matched set due to shift-ramps, so you can't mix & match cogs. And they typically have proprietary splines matched to freewheel-body, so you're not gonna be able to find replacement cogs that fit anyway.

I'm assuming the freewheel body is still attached to hub. It can be removed with Shimano freewheel tool (use QR to hold it lightly). Not sure how it can be put back together, unless you've managed to find and save all the tiny ball bearings. Easiest to remove freewheel body from hub, hold all little bearings in with grease on outer piece, and re-insert body from back side. Then gently spin bearing-cap back on with pin-tool. Remember it's reverse-threaded.

As others mentioned, simplest just to get new freewheel for $12.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Y5GXSM

BTW - chain-whip tool is needed to hold freewheel while unscrewing cog-stack lockring (for cassettes and freewheels).

 

[wilit]

Just looking at the 2nd largest gear it's time for new sprockets and chain anyway, or at least theach the kid to shift :laughing

Lots of good info here if you don't mind digging a bit:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html



That was my first thought too, but upon closer inspection it looks like the ramps are aligning with the backlighting in a way that makes them look heavily worn.

I can relate to wanting to get this thing reinstalled if it's still got life left in it, but if there's loose bearings everywhere I am not sure the genie can be put back in this bottle.

The bike is literally 4 months old. It's partially the lighting and partially some of the machining on the gears. I guess Schwinn quality has gone down hill.

 

[wilit]

I'm not even sure how this happened as freewheels don't just come apart. I managed bike-shop in Santa Barbara for 10-yrs and have never seen one just fall apart. Usually they seize up with rust.

Note that this is an old freewheel 6-spd design upgraded to hold an extra cog. There's lockring on end of cog-stack that threads onto body to hold extra cog on. I suspect OP tried to remove cog-stack for whatever reason and unscrewed bearing-cap instead of cog-stack lockring. The cogs are matched set due to shift-ramps, so you can't mix & match cogs. And they typically have proprietary splines matched to freewheel-body, so you're not gonna be able to find replacement cogs that fit anyway.

I'm assuming the freewheel body is still attached to hub. It can be removed with Shimano freewheel tool (use QR to hold it lightly). Not sure how it can be put back together, unless you've managed to find and save all the tiny ball bearings. Easiest to remove freewheel body from hub, hold all little bearings in with grease on outer piece, and re-insert body from back side. Then gently spin bearing-cap back on with pin-tool. Remember it's reverse-threaded.

As others mentioned, simplest just to get new freewheel for $12.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Y5GXSM

BTW - chain-whip tool is needed to hold freewheel while unscrewing cog-stack lockring (for cassettes and freewheels).

The inner (2 pin) ring doubles as the bearing race. If I could get the cog lock ring off, I could replace the loose bearings (they're 1/8" bearings that I got hundreds of). I'm guessing it was assembled at the Chinese factory at the end of an 18 hour shift right before their one day off, so quality was probably not great that day. Somehow that inner ring backed off and the bearings fell out the back, eventually enough freewheel back pedaling got that ring to back out enough that it threaded itself off the freewheel hub which is still attached to the wheel hub.

Since apparently a 12 splice 32mm tool doesn't seem to exist to remove that cog lock ring, I bought a new gearset and hub.

 

[auntiebling]

Lots of good info here if you don't mind digging a bit:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html



That was my first thought too, but upon closer inspection it looks like the ramps are aligning with the backlighting in a way that makes them look heavily worn.

I can relate to wanting to get this thing reinstalled if it's still got life left in it, but if there's loose bearings everywhere I am not sure the genie can be put back in this bottle.

man you have sharp eyes, or a better monitor than me. both likely!

The bike is literally 4 months old. It's partially the lighting and partially some of the machining on the gears. I guess Schwinn quality has gone down hill.

schwinn has had huge quality variations depending what decade, day, and month as has every manufacturer that is as old as they are. i don't know where they're at currently.

 

[Matty D]

How old is this bike? Model?

There are several different designs for freewheels and freehubs, and it's difficult to see what you've got there.

Save yourself a bunch of grief and aggravation and take it to a bike shop. They will at least be able to diagnose and help with the parts and tools you need.

Looks severely worn to me and I agree you will probably be told you need a new cassette or freewheel as well as a new chain, and possibly front chainring(s) as well. (As with motos, bike chains "stretch" over time and change the shape of the cogs, so a new chain won't always work with an old freewheel and vice-versa. They don't actually stretch but with wear the distance between the rollers gets bigger, which changes the tooth profile.)

 

[DannoXYZ]

He said bike was 4-months old. What brand and model? Where did you buy it from? Any warranty?

Part of bike-assembly process at my shop was to remove freewheel and grease threads on hub. Makes later removal much, much easier. Tech would've have noticed wobbly freewheel body if bearing-cap was loose from factory.

It's unfortunate with many low-end parts out there that copies Shimano designs. The quality is just not there. That brand mostly makes 1-spd freewheels for BMX type bikes. Multi-speed freewheels are new market for them, so I suspect they need to improve their designs. Heck, they may have used right-hand thread bearing cap.

Reason you can't find cog-stack lockring tool is there's so many freewheel designs and all lockrings are proprietary because it's not intended to be user-serviceable part. So tool-makers like Park won't bother to make such tools.

 

[rcb78]

This has been an on again off again issue with cheap bikes that use freewheels for at least the last 10 years. If you bought it from a shop, take it to them and get them to fix it. If you bought it from a dept store they will usually just swap the bike for a new one if they have it. Use that opportunity to get a refund and go visit a real bike shop.
Or like everyone else has said, just swap the part and be done with it.
New freewheels (last 20-ish years) aren't good candidates for rebuilding, they just aren't worth the effort.

 

[ctwo]

What brand and model? Where did you buy it from? Any warranty?

Are there any reputable brands, models, retailers, and serviceable warranties anymore? I expect it's all big box imports now. Some Latin phrasing and it's done.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Are there any reputable brands, models, retailers, and serviceable warranties anymore? I expect it's all big box imports now. Some Latin phrasing and it's done.

Sure, there's plenty: Giant, Trek, Specialized, Ghost, Felt, Bianchi, Cannondale, Diamondback, Cube, Fuji, Orbea, Nishiki, GT, Kestrel, Ibis, Norco, Provelo (good kid bikes), Raleigh, Yeti. Basically anything that you'd find in local mom & pop bike shop. Avoid big-box stores like REI or Performance. If anything, buying from good shop guarantees your bike will work. Even the OP's bike, if it had gone through decent shop, their assembly process would've caught the wobbly freewheel.

Real bike shops tend to stock quality brands, because it'll take them less time to assemble and tune. And fewer of them will come back for warranty repairs.

 

[ctwo]

I bought a Giant from a local bike shop that I think was around for ~30 years, a few years ago. ~$900. Surely there is no support on that bike. Could I even get a wheel spoke? I think the place is out of business, and not covid. Just the way it was before that. 90 day warranty maybe.

 

[ST Guy]

Just looking at the 2nd largest gear it's time for new sprockets and chain anyway, or at least theach the kid to shift :laughing

This. That gear set is completely shot. Buy a new one. Then teach your son how lubing a bicycle drive chain works. I don't think I've ever seen one so bad.