Batteries

[ToxicMark]

I'm lucky enough to own several bikes but unlucky enough to not have a ton of time to ride them all frequently enough to keep their batteries charged just from regular use. In a nutshell my batteries keep dying. Should I keep with lead acid batteries or switch to AGM batteries or get a Medusa of SAE connectors and keep all of my bikes on trickle 24/7?

Any input would be appreciated.

-Mark

 

[auntiebling]

Agm is still lead acid.

Battery tenders are your friend, or install master disconnects.

 

[RickM]

I have a garage full of bikes and, some of them goes a month before being ridden. I have the sae connectors on all bikes and rotate the battery tenders( i have 4) 1-2 weeks. This has worked well.

 

[bpw]

Agm is still lead acid.

But they have much slower self-discharge rates...

 

[ToxicMark]

Crap. I meant to post this in the Garage.

What do you mean by "1-2 weeks"? As in you keep the bikes on trickle for 1-2 weeks then swap the leads to your other bikes for 1-2 weeks?

For those that use AGM batteries are there any brands you have had good experience with?

Thanks.

 

[auntiebling]

But they have much slower self-discharge rates...

Have any references backing that ascertation up?

I could see there being a difference due to maintenance, or lack of it since the agm needs none aka operator error, but chemistry is chemistry. There should be no difference

 

[RickM]

Crap. I meant to post this in the Garage.

What do you mean by "1-2 weeks"? As in you keep the bikes on trickle for 1-2 weeks then swap the leads to your other bikes for 1-2 weeks?

For those that use AGM batteries are there any brands you have had good experience with?

Thanks.

Yes, Swap the leads every week or 2 weeks. Basically I try to top up each battery atleast once a month.

 

[bpw]

Have any references backing that ascertation up?

I could see there being a difference due to maintenance, or lack of it since the agm needs none aka operator error, but chemistry is chemistry. There should be no difference

http://www.cdtechno.com/pdf/ref/41_7272_0112.pdf

http://www.solar-electric.com/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html#AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries

1-4% a month at normal temperatures. No problem for an AGM to sit for a few months. They are also more likely to recover from a deep discharge without damage.

The chemistry is actually pretty sophisticated, and there are big differences between AGM and wet-cell in rates of charge and discharge as well. Can also be big differences between high and low quality batteries of any type.

 

[bpw]

For those that use AGM batteries are there any brands you have had good experience with?

Thanks.

I use Life-Line batteries on my boat, big money but very high quality. Not sure if they make moto batteries though. They live a hard life on they boat and have held up well for 5 years so far.

 

[OldMadBrit]

Switched to Shorai Li-ion for my track bike 2 years ago just to see if they were all "hype" or not.

Apparently not!

I can leave it for 6 months without a tender and it fires right up.

2 years, 3 track days and all of 200 miles later (a long and ultimately brilliant story involving cancer that wasn't) and my track bike still fires up first hit.

 

[russ69]

I have the same issue but I just go out into the garage and plug the tender into each bike until it's topped off, it doesn't take too long for each bike. I think leaving them on the tender 24/7 is overkill. If it takes more than an hour to top off then it's a clue your battery is getting tired.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Have any references backing that ascertation up?

I could see there being a difference due to maintenance, or lack of it since the agm needs none aka operator error, but chemistry is chemistry. There should be no difference

You'd agree that there is various kinds of chemistry and results change as ingredients do? AGM batts are typically "pure lead", on the order of >99% (blame the marketing guys). The electrolyte is often less "hot" (concentrated) and contains different amounts of calcium or antimony. The separators are Boron Silicate without silica gel.

Ergo; different chemistry than that found in a typical non-performance batt. There are other components to lead acid batts- generally the case is polycarb, not polystyrene.

They indeed self discharge at far slower rates.

 

[Deftone]

I switched to all LI batteries, they work great on my track bike and my every day commuter.

Before that I used a battery tender between 4 bikes and switched it to a different bike every week or two.

IMHO Lithium Ion is well worth the $. Huge weight savings, no maintenance and better performance.

I've been buying Shorai LI batteries, highly recommended. My track R6 came with an Anti Gravity LI battery, no complaints there either.

 

[auntiebling]

http://www.cdtechno.com/pdf/ref/41_7272_0112.pdf

http://www.solar-electric.com/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html#AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries

1-4% a month at normal temperatures. No problem for an AGM to sit for a few months. They are also more likely to recover from a deep discharge without damage.

The chemistry is actually pretty sophisticated, and there are big differences between AGM and wet-cell in rates of charge and discharge as well. Can also be big differences between high and low quality batteries of any type.

You'd agree that there is various kinds of chemistry and results change as ingredients do? AGM batts are typically "pure lead", on the order of >99% (blame the marketing guys). The electrolyte is often less "hot" (concentrated) and contains different amounts of calcium or antimony. The separators are Boron Silicate without silica gel.

Ergo; different chemistry than that found in a typical non-performance batt. There are other components to lead acid batts- generally the case is polycarb, not polystyrene.

They indeed self discharge at far slower rates.

good stuff, thanks. a cursory search last night on the smrt (= dum operator) phone didn't find much of substance to substantiate any difference as everything i found just said "lead acid vs (something else)"

http://www.cdtechno.com/pdf/ref/41_7272_0112.pdf

http://www.solar-electric.com/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html#AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries

1-4% a month at normal temperatures. No problem for an AGM to sit for a few months. They are also more likely to recover from a deep discharge without damage.

The chemistry is actually pretty sophisticated, and there are big differences between AGM and wet-cell in rates of charge and discharge as well. Can also be big differences between high and low quality batteries of any type.

Switched to Shorai Li-ion for my track bike 2 years ago just to see if they were all "hype" or not.

Apparently not!

I can leave it for 6 months without a tender and it fires right up.

2 years, 3 track days and all of 200 miles later (a long and ultimately brilliant story involving cancer that wasn't) and my track bike still fires up first hit.

lifepo4 here too.

it is worth pointing out that if you're fogetfull and let the battery drain for whatever reason (like say you left the key in the ON position with the headlight shining bright for.... oh say a few days) your battery will be unrecoverably DEAD. it is an expensive and sucky lesson that i learned the hard way but i still like them.

my favorite is from MOTY design and since my bikes are pretty naked with accessible batteries, i got the quick disconnect version and an extra pig tail (you could make your own too, parts aren't hard to find) and swap between bikes. cost of 1 battery divided by X bikes gets really economical in a hurry.

 

[ToxicMark]

About the LiPo batteries, I keep reading they are not so good on cold mornings and if you run a lot of accessories (GPS, heated grips, etc) then you really need to shell out the extra coin for the higher end LiPos. Two of my bikes are dual sport/adventure bikes that I take out camping. They see cold mornings and I run heated gear off of them. Would this be an issue?

 

[Roadstergal]

I bought a scooter from Zoran that already had a Shorai installed, and it's quite ridiculous how well it worked. I kept the scooter at work for running errands on campus, and it always cranked like a champ, even though I would let it sit for weeks.

At home - we've acquired a fair number of Battery Tenders and Jrs over the years, and ring terminal leads are a lot cheaper than Shorais all around.

 

[auntiebling]

About the LiPo batteries, I keep reading they are not so good on cold mornings and if you run a lot of accessories (GPS, heated grips, etc) then you really need to shell out the extra coin for the higher end LiPos. Two of my bikes are dual sport/adventure bikes that I take out camping. They see cold mornings and I run heated gear off of them. Would this be an issue?

I can't comment on the accessories issue but they do have a problem with being cold. Cranking the motor heats the battery though, usually enough that by the 2nd or 3rd try iynis back to normal. This is obviously inverse of lead acid behavior so very awkward feeling at first.

 

[louemc]

Switched to Shorai Li-ion for my track bike 2 years ago just to see if they were all "hype" or not.

Apparently not!

I can leave it for 6 months without a tender and it fires right up.

2 years, 3 track days and all of 200 miles later (a long and ultimately brilliant story involving cancer that wasn't) and my track bike still fires up first hit.

Same here :thumb up My AGM battery on my ZX-10..Has never been on a tender...I only ride it during 6 months of late spring-summer-early fall.

Bike always starts like it had been run the day before.

 

[Deftone]

About the LiPo batteries, I keep reading they are not so good on cold mornings and if you run a lot of accessories (GPS, heated grips, etc) then you really need to shell out the extra coin for the higher end LiPos. Two of my bikes are dual sport/adventure bikes that I take out camping. They see cold mornings and I run heated gear off of them. Would this be an issue?

Shorai on my FZ1 with heated grips and I ride in the low 30's, no issues at all. Cranks up quick everytime.

Shorai on my GSXR1K track bike (sold) sat for several months and always started no issues at all.

The Anti Gravity on my R6 track bike started a tad slow on the 1st try at Laguna Seca on a cold morning after sitting several months, but it gets stronger the more it cranks. Started up in seconds. Again, no issue.

I recommend Shorai as they seem the most developed and largest. I would see if the battery you need will work on multiple bikes and then just switch them.

 

[gixxerjeff]

I have the same issue but I just go out into the garage and plug the tender into each bike until it's topped off, it doesn't take too long for each bike. I think leaving them on the tender 24/7 is overkill. If it takes more than an hour to top off then it's a clue your battery is getting tired.

^This^
All of it :thumbup