Aux lighting activation

[Jalopyshoppe]

So, I just put some LED aux lights on my CRF. I did one pair of long distance spot beams, and one pair of Amber wide beam floods. I have a switch box with 2 toggles so I can individually turn them on, but I'm waffling between activating power to the switches from the high beam or keyed on power source. My Buell has an individual button, and I like it, save for night hooning when it becomes 2 actions to dim things. I usually run angry bright lights on my high beam. That way one switch makes me on coming traffic friendly.
Anyone here have a preference?

 

[Junkie]

I'd consider running it off the high beam power source, and then through a switch.

I imagine you have switches you like already, but I really like the HighwayDirtbikes ones

 

[BMW-K]

Hi, new guy here. You could run them through a relay slaved to the high beam but The ideal solution is called the Skene Dimmer. It allows for multiple intensity settings on LED lights so you could be at 10% on low and then 100% in high beam.

https://www.skenelights.com/online-store/Auxiliary-Light-Dimmers-c22720603

I’ve used the Skene now on three different bikes (*I just moved it from one bike to the next) and it’s really an amazing thing. I keep the lights on my GS at 20% on low beam, a push button switch for 80% on low (lane splitting) and 100% on high beam. The awesome part is just how natural the whole set up feels.

On a budget, I’d definitely slave a relay to the high beam. That worked great for me for more than a decade...heck, I still do that for my WR.

Peace!

 

[FreeRyde]

Most of my bikes have running lights that are keyed to the ignition being on (run off a switched fuseblock)

Then brighter AUX lights are ran from the same fuse block, through the handlebar hi/low switch.

 

[kuksul08]

Run another relay to the box so the switch box only works when the high beam is on.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

Whatever I decide, it'll be on it's own relay set. I'm just still deciding weather I want them activated by the high beam switch or standalone. I like the dimmer function, but this is primarily a dirt bike, so I think that application is a little overkill. I just want light when I Hoon accross the lakebed at night. Last year I had a bike with only a stock headlight, and that was really lame.

 

[kuksul08]

For me the last thing I want is to dick around with an auxiliary switch when coming around a corner and there is an oncoming car. You need that fraction-of-a-second dimming. If you're out in the desert, it doesn't really matter.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

If you're out in the desert, it doesn't really matter.

So, therin lies the rub. I don't think these lights will see freeway ever, and I'm kind of interested in having them as standalone, in case of oem switch failure. i don't see a 2017 headlight switch as a weak point, but who knows? it'd be nice to have these lights able to be on if the oem stuff fails. It'd also be nice to just kill them with one switch.

 

[ST Guy]

Keep them switched separately but add a third switch that can quickly cut power to both. Mount on bar close to left hand. Add dimming if you like.

And add relay to cut power to both when ignition is off. Bonus points for additional relay to cut power when starter is engaged.

 

[ST Guy]

And do NOT run the power for your new lights through the factory switch. You're sure to burn it up. Always use relays.

 

[Junkie]

And do NOT run the power for your new lights through the factory switch. You're sure to burn it up. Always use relays.

That depends on the bike.

I could run power for a pretty decent set of aux lights through my factory switch and it wouldn't be a problem. Why? From the factory, my bike (SV1000S) used a pair of H4 bulbs @ 55/60W or a total 120W on hi. People often install somewhat higher power bulbs on SVs without problems. I'm running a single JW Speaker 8790 Adaptive LED unit, which claims it pulls a max of 3.5A @ 13.5V or 47.25W. I could add 70W of auxiliary lighting (which is a LOT of LEDs) and still pull less power than the factory high beams did.

The naked SV650/SV1000 uses the same switch and wire sizes as the S, so extra capacity is there in some cases.

There are certainly bikes that have problems though - my KTM 625SMC melted the headlight switch with the factory bulb and no auxiliary lighting going through it.

 

[ST Guy]

I was assuming that the stock lighting is left stock.

FYI, putting HID or LED bulbs in a housing designed for halogen is not only illegal, but results in light going where you don't want it and poor light distribution. It may appear as an improvement but it's not. You blind people coming towards you (just what you don't want) and too much of the increase in brightness ends up too close in front of the bike resulting in your pupils closing a bit more. Also what you don't want.

These upgrades are illegal to use in the USA and in most all other countries in Europe. Japan, Australia, etc. Reflector and lens design is specific to the type of bulb being used.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

The bike is OEM equipped with LED headlights. I'm very aware of the way reflectors work, and which elements work. I'm installing LED aftermarket AUX lights (not Clearwaters) on my CRF rally. I have a switch box with 2 toggles. One for each set of lights. The toggles are Cole Hersee exterior waterproof units rated for 30a each. The power for the switches comes from a Cole Hersee 40a relay on a self resetting breaker from the battery. I think I'm going to energize the relay from a keyed on source so I can use the LED's even if the OEM circuit fails. The relay is easy enough to energize from battery power in case of some weird failure or if I crash and break the factory high/low switch.

 

[Junkie]

I was assuming that the stock lighting is left stock.

FYI, putting HID or LED bulbs in a housing designed for halogen is not only illegal, but results in light going where you don't want it and poor light distribution. It may appear as an improvement but it's not. You blind people coming towards you (just what you don't want) and too much of the increase in brightness ends up too close in front of the bike resulting in your pupils closing a bit more. Also what you don't want.

These upgrades are illegal to use in the USA and in most all other countries in Europe. Japan, Australia, etc. Reflector and lens design is specific to the type of bulb being used.

As I said, a stock SV650 has the same gauge wires and the same headlight switch, but runs a single 55/60 H4 vs the pair that the SV650S run. That means there's quite a bit of additional capacity on a completely stock bike.

I specified that it's a JW Speaker 8790 Adaptive, which is a complete light assembly (not just a bulb) that replaces the factory housing, and is DOT legal.

Some housings perform well with a drop-in HID - anything with projectors will at least still have a cutoff, and therefore won't blind oncoming traffic. Some even have fairly good beam patterns with the HID installed.


Could you point me to the specific law that prohibits use of non approved bulbs? Use, not manufacturing a vehicle.

 

[FreeRyde]

Or, like many electrical engineers know, lights will run with smaller gauge wire, but the light output will be hampered and choked when compared to running it with thiccer gauge from the source without a switch

 

[ST Guy]

As I said, a stock SV650 has the same gauge wires and the same headlight switch, but runs a single 55/60 H4 vs the pair that the SV650S run. That means there's quite a bit of additional capacity on a completely stock bike.

I specified that it's a JW Speaker 8790 Adaptive, which is a complete light assembly (not just a bulb) that replaces the factory housing, and is DOT legal.

Some housings perform well with a drop-in HID - anything with projectors will at least still have a cutoff, and therefore won't blind oncoming traffic. Some even have fairly good beam patterns with the HID installed.


Could you point me to the specific law that prohibits use of non approved bulbs? Use, not manufacturing a vehicle.

All vehicles sold in the USA must comply with DOT lighting regulations. There is rigorous testing of every light made for any vehicle. Any deviation from anything that is not approved is illegal. For instance, you can use any H4 bulb in a housing with reflector and lens designed for H4 bulbs as long as it doesn't exceed the light output and/or wattage the lamp was originally certified with. If you look closely at all vehicle lighting, they are marked with DOT's approval. (I forget how it's phrased.) If a light was approved for H4, unless it specifically says you can use other types of bulb, you can't....legally.

There's a hell of a lot more to light design than just having a cutoff. Reflectors are designed specifically for the light source and the light source is different for each bulb type. Halogen bulbs have a coil (coils can vary in size shape position, etc. from bulb type to bulb type). HID is an arc (oriented differently from a halogen coil and also having a different intensity pattern than halogen coils). LED's are even more different in the way they produce light. They emit from one surface, primarily, while coils and arc emit more hemispherically, though there are differences as well. Each type of light source requires a different reflector and lens design.

If you want to learn more, check out this website:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/bulbs.html

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/lights.html

One of the problems, for instance, of putting an HID "upgrade" in a halogen designed light housing is that too much light is projected too close in front of the light. This results in an apparent "improvement" in lighting but in reality, the extra light produced by the HID arc doesn't get thrown out in front more like it should. The bottom line is while it seems like an improvement, you've made it too bright too close in front of you, your pupils constrict a bit more and then you can't see as well further out in front of you where you really need to. And in spite of any cutoffs, there is still light that goes where it shouldn't at high intensity and ends up causing problems for other drivers.

Another bunch of crap are blue tinted bulbs. All the blue tint does is rob the bulb of light output. The only reason it's done is to make it appear that the vehicle is running HID's when it's not. PIAA's claims, for instance, about 55w = 85 watts is bullshit.

Explore Daniel's website. There's a wealth of good knowledge there.

If the light your using on your bike is actually approved, you're good to go. If it is approved, it should have DOT on it.

You might find this interesting: http://betterautomotivelighting.com...between-real-jw-speaker-led-lights-and-fakes/

Hopefully you don't have a knock-off.

 

[Junkie]

Or, like many electrical engineers know, lights will run with smaller gauge wire, but the light output will be hampered and choked when compared to running it with thiccer gauge from the source without a switch

He said that "You're sure to burn it up" if you run it through the stock switch.

You will get a little more light out of halogen bulbs if you use relays rather than the stock switch and wiring, but by no means are you "sure to burn it up" on every bike if you run auxiliary lights through the stock headlight switch.

If you're running LED lights, it's unlikely that there will be a difference in light output from running bigger wires and a relay. The power supply on them has to reduce the voltage anyway, so it doesn't particularly care about the input voltage (unless it's VERY low). The spec sheet for my headlight states that it needs an input voltage of 9-16V, and I would be VERY surprised at that low of a voltage at the headlight plug given stock wiring, stock fuse rating, and a functional charging system - you'd blow the fuse long before you drew enough current for that much voltage drop.

All vehicles sold in the USA must comply with DOT lighting regulations. There is rigorous testing of every light made for any vehicle. Any deviation from anything that is not approved is illegal. For instance, you can use any H4 bulb in a housing with reflector and lens designed for H4 bulbs as long as it doesn't exceed the light output and/or wattage the lamp was originally certified with. If you look closely at all vehicle lighting, they are marked with DOT's approval. (I forget how it's phrased.) If a light was approved for H4, unless it specifically says you can use other types of bulb, you can't....legally.

There's a hell of a lot more to light design than just having a cutoff. Reflectors are designed specifically for the light source and the light source is different for each bulb type. Halogen bulbs have a coil (coils can vary in size shape position, etc. from bulb type to bulb type). HID is an arc (oriented differently from a halogen coil and also having a different intensity pattern than halogen coils). LED's are even more different in the way they produce light. They emit from one surface, primarily, while coils and arc emit more hemispherically, though there are differences as well. Each type of light source requires a different reflector and lens design.

If you want to learn more, check out this website:

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/bulbs.html

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/lights/lights.html

One of the problems, for instance, of putting an HID "upgrade" in a halogen designed light housing is that too much light is projected too close in front of the light. This results in an apparent "improvement" in lighting but in reality, the extra light produced by the HID arc doesn't get thrown out in front more like it should. The bottom line is while it seems like an improvement, you've made it too bright too close in front of you, your pupils constrict a bit more and then you can't see as well further out in front of you where you really need to. And in spite of any cutoffs, there is still light that goes where it shouldn't at high intensity and ends up causing problems for other drivers.

Another bunch of crap are blue tinted bulbs. All the blue tint does is rob the bulb of light output. The only reason it's done is to make it appear that the vehicle is running HID's when it's not. PIAA's claims, for instance, about 55w = 85 watts is bullshit.

Explore Daniel's website. There's a wealth of good knowledge there.

If the light your using on your bike is actually approved, you're good to go. If it is approved, it should have DOT on it.

You might find this interesting: http://betterautomotivelighting.com...between-real-jw-speaker-led-lights-and-fakes/

Hopefully you don't have a knock-off.

I see nothing there about the laws that define it as illegal. There should be a number associated with said law, and it would be somewhere in the US Code (if it's a federal law) or the Vehicle Code (if it's a state law), or maybe somewhere else, but it will absolutely have a number associated with it.

You say all vehicles *sold* in the USA must comply. I specifically said *use*, which is different than manufacture/sale. Has anyone ever been prosecuted?

I wasn't saying that dropping in an HID is worth doing, just that it doesn't *always* blind oncoming traffic. In many cases it does (hence "some" rather than "many", "most", or "all").

And yes, it's a real JW Speaker light, purchased from TheRetrofitSource, who I think sells more of them than anyone else. I haven't heard of any knockoffs of the Adaptive lights either.

 

[FreeRyde]

I know from first hand experience that running tons of LED lights through a stock headlight switch (DL650) does indeed drop their output.

My brother cobbled together his LED setup through the stock wiring and they are easily 30% dimmer than when standalone hooked up to the battery with an independent switch.

It's easy to get around this by running a separate system with a relay that is activated by splicing into the stock wiring for signal.

 

[Junkie]

Interesting. I wish I had a good way to measure light output, I'd like to try hooking up the light to a bench power supply and seeing how light output varies with voltage.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

Man! You guys get pretty intense about lighting!
If anyone cares, I ended up energizing the relay off the bright switch. Interesting note, the CRF switches the headlights through ground, not positive in the switch. So,the relay needed key on power, then the high beam switches the ground. I initially energized the relay with battery power, which meant the lights would stay on when I turned the key off if the high beam switch was engaged. Oops.
End result is a good looking beam pattern that should kick ass offroad. Total draw of 12amps.