ABS: The scourge of a track bike

Holeshot

Super Moderator
Staff member
On Sunday I took my 2015 R1 out to Thill for some track time. I've yet to get an actual good day at the track on the bike and despite it being my own personal bike, plenty of other people have ridden her during testing of some fork combinations and had a great time. Finally, I got time to run her myself.

The bike's setup was spot on with the GP Suspension cartridge front end and Penske rear. No problems with that, nor the flash tune and Yosh exhaust. However, a few laps into the session and the reasons for never putting ABS on a track bike appeared quite visibly and with puckering results. On the R1 there is no "off" switch for the system and that creates a worse situation for heavy breakers.

Going into T14 at Thill about 4-5 laps into the session, going under and around a few people, the ABS kicked off. When the ABS is active, the front brake lever "kicks" a the lever away from the bar and the bike loses breaking performance. The first time this happened, I stood the bike up and ran into the runoff, then re-entered the track. It was very disruptive to what I needed to have happen (more breaking, not less). No, the tire was not in danger of locking. Instead, I believe the ABS controller wasn't able to handle the heat of the brake fluid. Each time I went out on the track after this, I'd get the same thing a few laps in, in the heavy braking areas. To add more fun to the equation, Yamaha likes to help you out with a linked braking system and has the rear brake take slack in braking force which in heavy braking corners, encourages the rear end to back around the front end. "Fun".

After getting used to the ABS kicking on in the most inopportune of times, I was able to pull the lever harder and get a bit more breaking, but I was still losing full breaking force.

It strikes me as odd that the EU standards would require ABS and the manufacturers don't include an "off" switch for track bikes. A heads up: careful on these systems when running hard. They're excellent machines, but the ABS is far from "safety", IMO.
 

GPToyz

Well-known member
I never understood the purpose of ABS on a true sport bike. I tell people all the time it's impossible to lock up the front brakes, you are gonna land on your head before the front locks up and I need separate control of the rear to settle the rear and clean up bad lines.

I feel crazy when I tell newbs repeatedly ABS is a scam on a sport bike!
 

danate

#hot4beks
Often you can disable the abs by disconnecting the sensors (or moving them away from the ribbed plate thing). The computer will just say abs failure, but that's fine.
 

Marcoose

50-50
I never understood the purpose of ABS on a true sport bike. I tell people all the time it's impossible to lock up the front brakes, you are gonna land on your head before the front locks up and I need separate control of the rear to settle the rear and clean up bad lines.

I feel crazy when I tell newbs repeatedly ABS is a scam on a sport bike!

Do you mean also including those sprotbiles that will stay stock their whole lives and only operated in public roadways?
 

Marcoose

50-50
It strikes me as odd that the EU standards would require ABS and the manufacturers don't include an "off" switch for track bikes.
Is your R1 originally a street model modified for track, or is it purchased from Yamaha as a track vehicle?
 

thedub

Octane Socks
That'll get about 2/3 the problem solved. Still gives a nice soft lever due to the maze of lines and abs module.

Don't you just remove all that shit? The hard lines, the pump/solenoid, and whatever else. Then just use a normal brake line from master to caliper. I dunno, that's what the BMW guys do.
 

Hooli

Big Ugly
Don't you just remove all that shit? The hard lines, the pump/solenoid, and whatever else.

The wheel speed sensor signals goes through the ABS ecu to the ECM. By removing the ABS ecu the ECM will not receive these wheel speed signals. The TC is retarding the ignition and eventually starts cutting it when the wheel speed difference is over a certain limit. IMU is also controlling the TC
 
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clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
I swear to Christ I graduated college Dave! Horrible...
He beat me to it. Fix that stuff. I couldn't believe I was reading YOUR post. :laughing

Spooky stuff. Ridiculous that you can't disable it. Thank goodness BMW allows all sorts of on/off combinations with the TC, WC (no not water closet) and ABS.
 

ctwo

Merely Rhetorical
Is it really that bad? I don't track, but my system seems pretty responsive and it will usually only get a few clicks off before I relax my braking a bit, and I believe the front is at the threshold of loosing grip at that point.

I agree about the linked systems, and I don't see a need for it even on the street, once you know how use both brakes properly. Because of it though, I do not have the same control over F/R braking, in the sensitive zone where it matters, so I add a bit of engine braking to compensate if I can - which I then use the clutch to modulate the braking and react to any ABS feedback. It works OK, and don't get excited because that's not the normal braking method - perhaps it may occur in some curve somewhere...
 

GAJ

Well-known member
The reason I sold my F800ST with abs and got another without ABS as the issue was appearing on the street.
 
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