A different perspective on dirt riding technique

[seavoyage]

The KTM Freeride 350 weighs more than a KTM200EXC/XC-W (appoximately 222 lbs. dry); imagine what you could do on a lighter 125/144/150cc 2-stroke using these riding techniques which are very different from the mainstream MX based techniques. You might compare the KTM Freeride weight to a 1974 Honda TL250 4-stroke trials bike which weighed 230 lbs. Tip: you'll have to rethink your suspension set-up: current MX/Enduro settings are over sprung; have too much rebound dampening; and run tire pressures that are too high.

youtu.be/pBm9aDqrw-o
youtu.be/y-jbJU9c8NQ
youtu.be/-20xs65ct7o
youtu.be/_dNGG-ks0B0​

As you well know, the KTM Freeride 350 is not imported into the US, but lighter, more powerful bikes with aftermarket modifications to change the powerband have been available for 2-decades in the US market.

 

[2link2]

Not sure I get it. The videos look like pro Trials riders on a Freeride. Are you saying to use Trails riding style on small bore 2 strokes that have mx type suspension on them & try to rework the suspension so you could ride like that ? Prob. be easier to put seat on big bore Trails bike

 

[seavoyage]

Not sure I get it. The videos look like pro Trials riders on a Freeride. Are you saying to use Trails riding style on small bore 2 strokes that have mx type suspension on them & try to rework the suspension so you could ride like that ? Prob. be easier to put seat on big bore Trails bike

It's the Trail Bike Trials (TBT) concept in Long-Distance Trials (LDT). Lightweight dirt bikes are more than capable for competing in the Sportsman class Intermediate lines at the local trials club, Sacramento P.I.T.S..

We experimented with suspension and powerband mods (more bottom-end and linear powerband) on a KTM200 project. The mods made executing double-blips and rear wheel hops easier. We couldn't do much with the steering lock limitations, the seat interference, the top-heavy feeling, or reducing the over 50 lbs. of excess weight. The modified dirt bike will never come close to being as nimble as our trials bikes, but at least these dirt bikes are available to the general market.

The bikes used by trials riders in Extreme Enduro (e.g. Romaniacs, Erzberg, Hell Gate, etc.) are relatively stock with appropriate armor, cooling/heating mods, and a Rekluse. The major modification is in the suspension (multi-stage compression valve stack and less rebound dampening), and the seat height is lowered slightly. Any lightweight dirt bike can be modified this way.

LDTs such as the Scottish Six Days Trial (SSDT) that covers over 100 miles each day, to include over road travel, are still performed with trials bike (no seats).

 

[BEN-ZX-14]

I still dont get the point.

I understand that a lighter bike has huge benfits and yes most riders could be competative at entry level speeds on a trials, but at the B, A, and AA level the trials bikes cant keep up with average bike.

I see the random rider race trials bikes in these big races, but i havent seen one on the podium at a premier level. Sure trials is fine at a C level, but so is a XR600 type bike.

 

[seavoyage]

I still dont get the point.

I understand that a lighter bike has huge benfits and yes most riders could be competative at entry level speeds on a trials, but at the B, A, and AA level the trials bikes cant keep up with average bike.

I see the random rider race trials bikes in these big races, but i havent seen one on the podium at a premier level. Sure trials is fine at a C level, but so is a XR600 type bike.

The point wasn't to compete in Enduros on a trials bike. The points were:

1. apply trials techniques to riding a dirt bike.
2. encourage riding a trials event on your dirt bike - Ride what you brung!

 

[BEN-ZX-14]

Got it. I havent ridden a trials bike, but i would love a bike that light. At the Sportsman "C" level it would probably work, but most C riders sit 90% of the time and trials wont work for seat riders.


I dont think trials will be competative at B or faster at any race where speed is the primary purpose. I am not an enduro rider, but with Hare Scrambles the technical sections are nothing compared to trials and many of the technical skills dont translate.

Not to even touch on the diffrences in suspesion setups.

The point wasn't to compete in Enduros on a trials bike. It was to apply trials techniques to trail riding on a dirt bike.

 

[2link2]

It's the Trail Bike Trials (TBT) concept in Long-Distance Trials (LDT). Lightweight dirt bikes are more than capable for competing in the Sportsman class Intermediate lines at the local trials club, Sacramento P.I.T.S..

We experimented with suspension and powerband mods (more bottom-end and linear powerband) on a KTM200 project. The mods made executing double-blips and rear wheel hops easier. We couldn't do much with the steering lock limitations, the seat interference, the top-heavy feeling, or reducing the over 50 lbs. of excess weight. The modified dirt bike will never come close to being as nimble as our trials bikes, but at least these dirt bikes are available to the general market.

The bikes used by trials riders in Extreme Enduro (e.g. Romaniacs, Erzberg, Hell Gate, etc.) are relatively stock with appropriate armor, cooling/heating mods, and a Rekluse. The major modification is in the suspension (multi-stage compression valve stack and less rebound dampening), and the seat height is lowered slightly. Any lightweight dirt bike can be modified this way.

LDTs such as the Scottish Six Days Trial (SSDT) that covers over 100 miles each day, to include over road travel, are still performed with trials bike (no seats).

Got it, & FWIW the first 2 years of Maxis enduro cross had a few winners in the money on trial bikes it was so cool to watch the "run what ya brung" racing by far and away the best spectator off-road racing there was, then Maxxis with all there wisdom bans trials bikes from the big money events because Maxxis didn't make a Trials tire.

 

[seavoyage]

We discovered that a stock modern (GasGas) trials bike from the factory is over sprung, and has too much rebound damping for a 150 lbs. rider. We of course revalved and changed the springs on our trials bikes. Not a simple task as most US suspension tuners don't have experience with trials bikes or the components (Formula forks, Sachs rear shock, etc.)

The KTM200, although considered lightweight by most riders, is just too heavy for me! and amplifies many of the short comings of a dirt bike. I probably won't be able to perform trials techniques on a heavy 450cc 4-stroke (yes they are heavy). Erich Brandauer does it on a Husaberg FE450 but he's a huge guy and a 12-time Trials champion..

youtu.be/_wyAUcyPqKE​

With the suspension mods made on the KTM, I can now use the suspension rebound to loft the front wheel or hop the rear wheel to pivot turn. Prior to the revalve, the excessive rebound dampening made the bike feel very sluggish.

The seat and tank just get in the way of your knees and significantly limit the degree you can lean the bike while standing on the pegs or executing off-camber turns on slopes. The lack of steering lock range coupled with a 'top-heavy' feel makes the bike very clumsy.

You'll be surprised that the 'traveling gear' ratios (5th-6th) on a trials bike allows speeds up to 60 mph. Fast enough for most dirt riding.

My Subjective Opinion: At the end of the day it's about having fun, and not working too hard. Being able to use the trials techniques is more efficient, and require less physical effort to control the bike over obstacles, hills, and limited traction conditions. The trials bikes are just so much easier to ride. I now consider the KTM200 and GasGas EC300 as heavy play bikes :rofl appropriate when:

• I just want to be lazy and play around; or
• required by competition rules or
• the appropriate mount when I have to be polite and sociable when riding with non-trials riders or
• it's a D/S event and I need a street plate (EC300)

I have the utmost respect for any rider who can apply trials techniques on a 4-stroke dirt bike.