Vacaville PD: K9 Ground & Pound

[CABilly]

Fair warning the video in the linked article is disturbing

“The dog performed very well in the training scenario and located the narcotics,” Lydon said.

The K9 was rewarded with a toy, but when the officer tried to take it back, Lydon said the dog got upset.

“The K9 lunged in an attempt to bite the handler and that’s when swift action needs to take place to let the dog know the handler is in charge. That is a position of dominance that you see in the video when the officer straddles the dog,” Lydon said.

CBS13 asked him if punching the dog in the face is a part of the reprimand process.

“There are certain scenarios where strikes to the dog can be appropriate. We want to know the mindset what the officer was experiencing in that moment and we’ll go from there,” Lydon said.

Full article here: https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2020/12/30/vacaville-officer-punching-k9-training-separated/

Well? I’ve never seen police dog training but I have two professionally trained hunting dogs and getting in full mount and dropping bombs was never part of “establishing dominance.” Dominance theory training is increasingly being shown to have poorer results. Is this how police dogs are trained? Looks like felony assault on an officer to me...

Doesn’t have to get political we can keep the discussion to dog training methods and ethics.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

Yeh, I didn't have to do anything like that to train my dog. Granted I own a super mellow beagle, but still.

 

[Blankpage]

Didn’t look too bad the bit caught on video.
The dog will be trained to maul people, I feel worse for those who will be on the receiving end of that.

 

[Agent Orange]

Thats assault on a police officer.

 

[afm199]

Vacaville PD just became a joke. They are defending that moron.

 

[mrzuzzo]

Pretty sure one of the mods here is a handler. Will be interesting to hear his response.

 

[Critter]

If hes doing that to a dog when he thinks no one is watching I can only imagine how he treats people that piss him off.

 

[tzrider]

Doesn’t have to get political we can keep the discussion to dog training methods and ethics.

Positive reinforcement based training is increasingly popular for K9’s and has been shown to reduce dog/handler conflict. Some military dogs are still trained using aversive techniques for things like bomb detection. The bulk of that training is reward based but is supplemented with a very aversive punishment for what would in real life be a fatal error. They do this when the dog performs a life or death role.

I have no idea how this dog has been trained but its reported reaction to the handler doesn’t indicate a high degree of trust. Also unsure of what the positive reinforcement technique would be to get the dog to stop biting you. I’m guessing the handler went a bit off script here but he did have to make the dog stop.

 

[bojangle]

Pretty sure one of the mods here is a handler. Will be interesting to hear his response.

We have two. I used to be a K9 handler.

Positive reinforcement based training is increasingly popular for K9’s and has been shown to reduce dog/handler conflict. Some military dogs are still trained using aversive techniques for things like bomb detection. The bulk of that training is reward based but is supplemented with a very aversive punishment for what would in real life be a fatal error. They do this when the dog performs a life or death role.

I have no idea how this dog has been trained but its reported reaction to the handler doesn’t indicate a high degree of trust. Also unsure of what the positive reinforcement technique would be to get the dog to stop biting you. I’m guessing the handler went a bit off script here but he did have to make the dog stop.

The dog didn't have a high degree of trust. According to the articles, the handler and the K9 were new to the program, still in initial training, and not out on patrol.

The dog absolutely had to let go of the reward toy when the handler ordered him to. This would be essential. While I'm not sure if the K9 detection dog is also being cross trained in handler protection and apprehension, I can tell you that a bite dog needs to be able to bite upon handler command, and also be able to come off the bite upon command, which is a more difficult thing to train for in a dog with the drive it takes to be successful.

Just imagine the public safety hazard of an attack dog who will not obey it's handler. Dogs will constantly test the handler too and see how much they can get away with. Not giving up a reward toy upon command is a training issue that needs to be immediately addressed. I don't see positive reinforcement being used for an issue like that.

 

[budgie45]

Of course a cop would say that,that’s a shitty excuse for beating a dog ,he should be fired ,he’s proabbly a wife beater as well,

We have two. I used to be a K9 handler.



The dog didn't have a high degree of trust. According to the articles, the handler and the K9 were new to the program, still in initial training, and not out on patrol.

The dog absolutely had to let go of the reward toy when the handler ordered him to. This would be essential. While I'm not sure if the K9 detection dog is also being cross trained in handler protection and apprehension, I can tell you that a bite dog needs to be able to bite upon handler command, and also be able to come off the bite upon command, which is a more difficult thing to train for in a dog with the drive it takes to be successful.

Just imagine the public safety hazard of an attack dog who will not obey it's handler. Dogs will constantly test the handler too and see how much they can get away with. Not giving up a reward toy upon command is a training issue that needs to be immediately addressed. I don't see positive reinforcement being used for an issue like that.

 

[CABilly]

Of course a cop would say that,that’s a shitty excuse for beating a dog ,he should be fired ,he’s proabbly a wife beater as well,

I would like to see Brock Lesnar’s chapter in the K9 training manual.

I agree this guy’s parents probably discovered then ignored his stash of dead animals buried behind the house and strange collection of locks of hair and odd trinkets when he was a kid. I don’t know if I can be convinced that this is an approved, appropriate training technique.

 

[budgie45]

Should start a petition to get him fired I would sign it,Met plenty of Asshole off duty cops when I was a bouncer flashing their badges trying to get their friends into the club without ids lol,trying to get free lap dances from the strippers



I never let any of them,lol

I would like to see Brock Lesnar’s chapter in the K9 training manual.

I agree this guy’s parents probably discovered then ignored his stash of dead animals buried behind the house and strange collection of locks of hair and odd trinkets when he was a kid. I don’t know if I can be convinced that this is an approved, appropriate training technique.

 

[DrSwade]

I can see Bojangles getting flamed for his experienced opinion. I can’t even watch the video because anything resembling animal cruelty disturbs me deeply.

But I grew up on a farm and can’t believe I ever participated in the cruel necessities of farming and harvesting livestock.

To his comment, we had a farm dog GS that whenever she needed reprimanding, anything short of a punch in the face and she just thought was playing.

 

[GAJ]

We have two. I used to be a K9 handler.



The dog didn't have a high degree of trust. According to the articles, the handler and the K9 were new to the program, still in initial training, and not out on patrol.

The dog absolutely had to let go of the reward toy when the handler ordered him to. This would be essential. While I'm not sure if the K9 detection dog is also being cross trained in handler protection and apprehension, I can tell you that a bite dog needs to be able to bite upon handler command, and also be able to come off the bite upon command, which is a more difficult thing to train for in a dog with the drive it takes to be successful.

Just imagine the public safety hazard of an attack dog who will not obey it's handler. Dogs will constantly test the handler too and see how much they can get away with. Not giving up a reward toy upon command is a training issue that needs to be immediately addressed. I don't see positive reinforcement being used for an issue like that.

OK, but is punching a dog a part of accepted protocol by the trainer?

 

[CABilly]

We have two. I used to be a K9 handler.



The dog didn't have a high degree of trust. According to the articles, the handler and the K9 were new to the program, still in initial training, and not out on patrol.

The dog absolutely had to let go of the reward toy when the handler ordered him to. This would be essential. While I'm not sure if the K9 detection dog is also being cross trained in handler protection and apprehension, I can tell you that a bite dog needs to be able to bite upon handler command, and also be able to come off the bite upon command, which is a more difficult thing to train for in a dog with the drive it takes to be successful.

Just imagine the public safety hazard of an attack dog who will not obey it's handler. Dogs will constantly test the handler too and see how much they can get away with. Not giving up a reward toy upon command is a training issue that needs to be immediately addressed. I don't see positive reinforcement being used for an issue like that.

One officer bites his partner, the other mounts and beats him in return. If they were that early on in their training, it doesn't seem like they should have been left unsupervised together with no one to intervene if things turned sideways. It seems to me maybe neither is cut out to wear a badge.

In your handling experience, were you taught to mount and repeatedly punch your partner in the face until he submitted to your will?

 

[afm199]

We have two. I used to be a K9 handler.



The dog didn't have a high degree of trust. According to the articles, the handler and the K9 were new to the program, still in initial training, and not out on patrol.

The dog absolutely had to let go of the reward toy when the handler ordered him to. This would be essential. While I'm not sure if the K9 detection dog is also being cross trained in handler protection and apprehension, I can tell you that a bite dog needs to be able to bite upon handler command, and also be able to come off the bite upon command, which is a more difficult thing to train for in a dog with the drive it takes to be successful.

Just imagine the public safety hazard of an attack dog who will not obey it's handler. Dogs will constantly test the handler too and see how much they can get away with. Not giving up a reward toy upon command is a training issue that needs to be immediately addressed. I don't see positive reinforcement being used for an issue like that.

Nobody is arguing that the dog was acting properly. Not one person. It was poorly trained, obviously.

Beating a dog around the head is not proper training. And I have fifty bucks that says you never did it.

 

[Climber]

I don't know what goes into training a K9 for the job they need to do.

I suspect that each officer has their own methods according to their personality, many different managers have different methods for getting the most out of their workers across a whole spectrum from high morale and trust to fear and threats.

Personally, I think this guy falls on the total dominance approach which probably reflects his personality. I know one thing, I wouldn't want this guy to be dating any of my daughters, I'd probably end up having to beat the hell out of him.

 

[Blankpage]

Dog was suspended with pay for biting the officer

 

[GAJ]

Dog was suspended with pay for biting the officer

I hope they don't take away his pension.

 

[TylerW]

Nobody is arguing that the dog was acting properly. Not one person. It was poorly trained, obviously.

Beating a dog around the head is not proper training. And I have fifty bucks that says you never did it.

I don't like the idea of punching animals either. But lots of folks here are calling this assault on an officer.

If I were an officer and my partner was physically abusing a suspect and unresponsive to verbal commands, I'd assault an officer too.