SPOT Tracker - Customer No Longer...
- Thread starter FreeRyde
- Start date
I was never impressed with SPOT, specifically with how horrible the tracking feature worked. Started using SPOTWalla and found it much easier to use and more reliable.
FWIW, I used to work at the company who developed the core system (GlobalStar) and it was always a failure. I figure SPOT was just an attempt to recapture some of the millions in losses the government wasn't picking up.
FWIW, I used to work at the company who developed the core system (GlobalStar) and it was always a failure. I figure SPOT was just an attempt to recapture some of the millions in losses the government wasn't picking up.
Wrycque
Wrycque = Rick
I have never really noticed much of a skip or miss on my tracks. After all of this I am going to start scrutinizing it more closely though. I ride mostly in the Sierras. Now, if we were talking Garmin, I'd get on the complaint bandwagon. That thing has more skips and misses than some of my old vinyl. :laughing
FreeRyde
The Curmudgeon
Different type of signal / wavelength
bpw
Well-known member
I've got one of those ACR beacons I would let go cheap, due for a new battery so find out how much that costs and we can work something out.
But, the reason I don't want it anymore is because I have an Inreach and they really are the best option, you pay monthly but the two way communication is GOLD!
Inreach uses a satellite network that is far better than spot and is truly worldwide, unlike spot that does not cover high latitudes and parts of the ocean. Not a problem for moto riders, but for sailors it is important.
But, the reason I don't want it anymore is because I have an Inreach and they really are the best option, you pay monthly but the two way communication is GOLD!
Inreach uses a satellite network that is far better than spot and is truly worldwide, unlike spot that does not cover high latitudes and parts of the ocean. Not a problem for moto riders, but for sailors it is important.
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FreeRyde
The Curmudgeon
Get outa here with your maf stuffs!
Archimedes
Fire Watcher
FreeRyde
The Curmudgeon
Long post...
Last night I had an interesting chat with two industry experts. One being the head of a Southern California Search and Rescue team and a Coast Guard small boat rescue captain. They brought some stuff to my attention...
Iridium/Inreach/Garmin: While it appears to be very similar to the SPOT setup, the Iridium network and satellite constellations are backed by and heavily used by the United States gov (bailed out by the gov a few years back). The network is more advanced, more saturated with little things in the sky.
Global Star/Spot: Both of the guys I talked to thought that STOP and Global Star will never be able to keep up with the conglomeration of Iridium/Inreach/Garmin. The Global Star network has had issues in the past with satellites going down, and the company was slow to respond.
Both of these companies use low-orbit satellites, which have faster orbits than the rotation of the earth itself. This is a plus and a minus, plus being that they wiz around pretty damn fast, and your chances of getting a ping to the emergency center can be increased. Sadly, if you are stuck in a canyon somewhere, the limited amount of time that the satellites are overhead won’t allow the entire signal to get out. The basic SOS will get out, with the ID number of your device, but that’s about it.
I knew all this stuff for the most part, but what I didn’t know was with services like Garmin and SPOT, if you smack that SOS button and only your SOS signal and device ID go out, the emergency center will get that information and can start making calls to try and pinpoint where you are. If your device is not able to get out GPS coordinates to the satellite constellations, these types of networks go into a “search” mode. Where passing satellites try to triangulate your transmission signal based on signal strength as they approach or leave your area. This allows networks like Global Star and Iridium to give a rough area (of a few miles) where the signal came from, even if the GPS coordinates are not able to be sent. These type of “searches” can take anywhere between 30-120 minutes depending on satellite orbits. The S&R teams are usually able to get a 1-4 mile search radius after these searches are finished by the satellites. That's pretty damn good without GPS coordinates!
ACR/ Personal Locator Beacon:
PLB’s run off global weather satellites, which are higher orbit devices. Most of these devices run a higher signal strength, because they have to send it further. The huge plus is that with the satellites sitting overhead longer, your signal can be pinpointed pretty quickly, if you have a clear line of sight to the skyline. The major downside to the PLB’s is if you are stuck in a canyon in Idaho, and the GWS (global weather satellites) are running in an orbit south of you, there is no signal getting out, period. This is why PLB’s are often more heavily used by ocean going travelers and less by adventure back country folks. Not saying that they are not useful, but if you spend a lot of time riding in the back woods in canyons and valleys, this is just good information to have.
With this information I’d probably make the switch over to a Garmin device. Knowing that some sort of signal would likely get out, and then a rough location area even if there was no GPS is better than nothing. Pair that with ability to pay per month, it’s a pretty cool little service. (I'm not even touching on the 2 way messaging)
The Search and Rescue feller also had some other viable options, running Spotwalla on your phone, sharing the link with family members is a free and pretty accurate service. But you just have to remember to keep the phone charged and on. But again, that’s only good for places you have cell reception. This allows family members to simply make sure you’re still moving day in and day out.
He also came with the option of a HAM radio or CB setup. While this is not too common out in this part of the country, CB radios are all over the rest of the country. There are usually emergency frequencies programed into CB radios. It turns out that the S&R leader is also a HAM radio expert, and suggested that as another option, but I am not sure that would work because HAM radio operators are somewhat a dying breed and require specific repeater dialing to work, and then hope someone is listening.
Sorry for the long winded post, but this was cool information to me and thought it could be interesting to others as well!
Last night I had an interesting chat with two industry experts. One being the head of a Southern California Search and Rescue team and a Coast Guard small boat rescue captain. They brought some stuff to my attention...
Iridium/Inreach/Garmin: While it appears to be very similar to the SPOT setup, the Iridium network and satellite constellations are backed by and heavily used by the United States gov (bailed out by the gov a few years back). The network is more advanced, more saturated with little things in the sky.
Global Star/Spot: Both of the guys I talked to thought that STOP and Global Star will never be able to keep up with the conglomeration of Iridium/Inreach/Garmin. The Global Star network has had issues in the past with satellites going down, and the company was slow to respond.
Both of these companies use low-orbit satellites, which have faster orbits than the rotation of the earth itself. This is a plus and a minus, plus being that they wiz around pretty damn fast, and your chances of getting a ping to the emergency center can be increased. Sadly, if you are stuck in a canyon somewhere, the limited amount of time that the satellites are overhead won’t allow the entire signal to get out. The basic SOS will get out, with the ID number of your device, but that’s about it.
I knew all this stuff for the most part, but what I didn’t know was with services like Garmin and SPOT, if you smack that SOS button and only your SOS signal and device ID go out, the emergency center will get that information and can start making calls to try and pinpoint where you are. If your device is not able to get out GPS coordinates to the satellite constellations, these types of networks go into a “search” mode. Where passing satellites try to triangulate your transmission signal based on signal strength as they approach or leave your area. This allows networks like Global Star and Iridium to give a rough area (of a few miles) where the signal came from, even if the GPS coordinates are not able to be sent. These type of “searches” can take anywhere between 30-120 minutes depending on satellite orbits. The S&R teams are usually able to get a 1-4 mile search radius after these searches are finished by the satellites. That's pretty damn good without GPS coordinates!
ACR/ Personal Locator Beacon:
PLB’s run off global weather satellites, which are higher orbit devices. Most of these devices run a higher signal strength, because they have to send it further. The huge plus is that with the satellites sitting overhead longer, your signal can be pinpointed pretty quickly, if you have a clear line of sight to the skyline. The major downside to the PLB’s is if you are stuck in a canyon in Idaho, and the GWS (global weather satellites) are running in an orbit south of you, there is no signal getting out, period. This is why PLB’s are often more heavily used by ocean going travelers and less by adventure back country folks. Not saying that they are not useful, but if you spend a lot of time riding in the back woods in canyons and valleys, this is just good information to have.
With this information I’d probably make the switch over to a Garmin device. Knowing that some sort of signal would likely get out, and then a rough location area even if there was no GPS is better than nothing. Pair that with ability to pay per month, it’s a pretty cool little service. (I'm not even touching on the 2 way messaging)
The Search and Rescue feller also had some other viable options, running Spotwalla on your phone, sharing the link with family members is a free and pretty accurate service. But you just have to remember to keep the phone charged and on. But again, that’s only good for places you have cell reception. This allows family members to simply make sure you’re still moving day in and day out.
He also came with the option of a HAM radio or CB setup. While this is not too common out in this part of the country, CB radios are all over the rest of the country. There are usually emergency frequencies programed into CB radios. It turns out that the S&R leader is also a HAM radio expert, and suggested that as another option, but I am not sure that would work because HAM radio operators are somewhat a dying breed and require specific repeater dialing to work, and then hope someone is listening.
Sorry for the long winded post, but this was cool information to me and thought it could be interesting to others as well!
dravnx
Well-known member
Grant, thanx for the research. My $.02.
Iridium systems such as Inreach cost more but allow 2 way comm and tracking.
The Spot investment is less, has only one way comm but you can program up to 3 messages + the dedicated SOS button. We used a Spot during my recent Mexican 1000 race. It worked flawlessly for tracking and for notifying us when our rider had a mechanical issue. Many racers used Spot devices.
A PLB has no subscription costs but only has one button-SOS and no tracking feature.
Iridium systems such as Inreach cost more but allow 2 way comm and tracking.
The Spot investment is less, has only one way comm but you can program up to 3 messages + the dedicated SOS button. We used a Spot during my recent Mexican 1000 race. It worked flawlessly for tracking and for notifying us when our rider had a mechanical issue. Many racers used Spot devices.
A PLB has no subscription costs but only has one button-SOS and no tracking feature.
dravnx
Well-known member
The new Garmin Inreach Mini looks really interesting.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/05/garmin-inreach-mini-satellite-tracker-in-depth-review.html
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/05/garmin-inreach-mini-satellite-tracker-in-depth-review.html
mosquito
Above all I like to play.
FWIW, the Ham option means that before you go on your trip you research what channels / repeaters there are on your intended route and either program your radio for that or keep a list so you can dial in what you want when you need it. To a Ham, this is just part of what you do to use your tools. Like that crazy business motorcyclists do about tire pressure and chain hygiene.
But yeah, it means you have to be a double-nerd: moto and radio.
Freebird
Moto Fueler
I've had the SPOT Trace for just over a year, summary: TOTAL POS.
90's software mixed with new-age technologies = failure.
All sensors and notifications (especially low batteries) will never be received, and are random as an epileptics seizures!
This company told me after a theft that, "gee, sorry the batteries died and somehow it did not send the low battery warning the 5 days prior to the theft as we see on the logs -- too bad so sad."
Save your money, their raising the rates and lowering the services actual realities to what they promise are an ever-widening dichotomy!
90's software mixed with new-age technologies = failure.
All sensors and notifications (especially low batteries) will never be received, and are random as an epileptics seizures!
This company told me after a theft that, "gee, sorry the batteries died and somehow it did not send the low battery warning the 5 days prior to the theft as we see on the logs -- too bad so sad."
Save your money, their raising the rates and lowering the services actual realities to what they promise are an ever-widening dichotomy!
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Strom trooper
Well-known member
I've been researching these since I've been looking to buy my first one later this year. In reach and theres another company out of Canada that's a green device that might even be better that I'm looking at closely. Spot looks behind
Starpower
Well-known member
I use the InReach Mini and can't say enough about how great it is. My wife is a worrier and knows I like to explore off trail. I'm often taking a much longer route that I left with. So, for no extra cost I can send a text with a basic update
"like running late" or 10 a month of any text for base rate. There are several "canned" texts that you can send at no extra charge as well and you can create your own and save them.
Super battery life, crazy small and I've been in some steep canyons that see sun just a 1-2 of hours a day and got a signal. Also the SOS button does indeed send out your GPS coordinates.
This may be helpful:
https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/revi...g/personal-locator-beacon/garmin-inreach-mini
thedub
Octane Socks
Because it has a larger network of satellites, meaning you have a better chance that one is directly overhead to receive the signal you are sending straight up out of the canyon.
If you are going to rely on a HAM radio in an emergency in 2020, you are definitely going to die.
bpw
Well-known member
Yeah, we use Ham radio for paragliding along with Inreach, the ham radios are nice walkie-talkies but pretty useless unless you are with people on the same frequency and they are looking for you. Range is minimal from a handheld.
APRS is somewhat interesting, but also limited compared to the satellite based solutions.