New California Roadrace Association (CRA) Series Starts In 2021

stangmx13

not Stan
It'll be interesting to watch another club try to make longer races profitable. WERA did it years ago and eventually dropped them. I wonder how much racers are willing to pay for races that are 3x as long. 2x? 3x?
 

budman

General Menace
Staff member
Longer races might work for them.

Less classes right??

Although clean up in the bagger class could be time consuming. :p

Back in my day the AFM races were 11 laps and there were way fewer classes from what I recall.
 

scratchpad

Well-known member
It'll be interesting to watch another club try to make longer races profitable. WERA did it years ago and eventually dropped them. I wonder how much racers are willing to pay for races that are 3x as long. 2x? 3x?

Are they talking about ALL races or just the GT races? I read it as only the shootouts will be the longer races. It sounds similar to how CVMA runs.

CVMA dropped the LWT shootout a few years ago when the 400's gained alot of traction. They still do the Open shootout and Ultra LWT shootout.
 

scratchpad

Well-known member
Longer races might work for them.

Less classes right??

Back in my day the AFM races were 11 laps and there were way fewer classes from what I recall.

Less classes (K.I.S.S.) , less practice and qualifying on Saturday. The main practice day is Friday.

No legacy, vintage, 750, clubman, Super Dino, Singles just off the top of my head.

Thats based on how CVMA runs.

Back in your day there was what like 20 rounds at all the California tracks? Good ole days.
 
Last edited:

MR662

AFM #662
I think less classes is good. Sounds like they will still have the sprints of 6-8 laps on Sunday but Saturday is the GT races of 20 laps. I think it may attract MotoAmerica locals to come out more to get in some longer race practice for MA.

While the AFM has worked to add so many classes to give everyone a class to race in, I think its silly to have 3-5 bike grids. Id rather see a simpler format, good grids of 20-30 bikes and be able to race 2-3 classes on Sunday, while getting plenty of track day time on friday and some faster race quals on saturday.
 

dtrides

Well-known member
I see many folks complain about too many classes in the AFM.
How much time is lost when many classes grid up together and there are multiple waves for the same race? A couple of minutes extra per race?
Yes ,it would be cool to have 20 bikes per class but I don't think that is realistic of what folks have in their garages to bring to the races these days.
I picked my bike as a affordable bike to track before deciding to race.
No budget to buy and set up a different bike and I like the bike I have.
The new twins class in MotoAmerica has a great turn out, but those are not cheap bikes to be competitive.
The new Aprilia 660 looks sweet but one would be in around $14 K vs the $4 K I have in mine to be track worthy.
That, as I see it, is the problem. Getting Twenty similar bikes, set up to fit one class, is not going to be easy.
The closest thing in recent years are in the small displacement classes has been the 300 class, which then kind of morphed into the 400 class.
These are great classes but not everyone wants to race a 400.
And if you spent all your beans prepping a 300 when it was " the in class" , wouldn't you want a separate class to race in aside from the new 400's?
And so it goes...there are now many classes to fit what folks already have/can afford. Is that really such a bad thing for club racing?
DT
 
Last edited:

MR662

AFM #662
I see many folks complain about too many classes in the AFM.
How much time is lost when many classes grid up together and there are multiple waves for the same race? A couple of minutes extra per race?
Yes ,it would be cool to have 20 bikes per class but I don't think that is realistic of what folks have in their garages to bring to the races these days.
I picked my bike as a affordable bike to track before deciding to race.
No budget to buy and set up a different bike and I like the bike I have.
The new twins class in MotoAmerica has a great turn out, but those are not cheap bikes to be competitive.
The new Aprilia 660 looks sweet but one would be in around $14 K vs the $4 K I have in mine to be track worthy.
That, as I see it, is the problem. Getting Twenty similar bikes, set up to fit one class, is not going to be easy.
The closest thing in recent years are in the small displacement classes has been the 300 class, which then kind of morphed into the 400 class.
These are great classes but not everyone wants to race a 400.
And if you spent all your beans prepping a 300 when it was " the in class" , wouldn't you want a separate class to race in aside from the new 400's?
And so it goes...there are now many classes to fit what folks already have/can afford. Is that really such a bad thing for club racing?
DT

Yes, But you can still combine or do away with some classes. In MotoAmerica the R3 and 400 race together though the 400 is restricted. Ive seen 50 hp R3's and Ive also seen guys on stock engine 300's and R3's with some basic mods and 40 0r so hp, run same lap times as guys on 400's with 45-48hp . The 300/400 class could be combined. Also why have Lightweight Superbike and Light Weight Twins, its pretty much all the same bikes, running similiar lap times, now split up to two different classes. I mean they combined 80hp 450 cripples with 45-50 hp 400's, since lap times were similiar given power to weight ratio.

Instead of 2 waves of 7-10 bikes, how about 20 bikes battling it out. All the small bikes run together in F3 as well. Same as having 600's run 750 class or all being together for F1 or F4, whatever it is. I remember racing in mid 2000's and novices and experts ran together. No schedule or change will make everyone happy. The worst thing any club can do is be content, just think we should always be looking at ways to make things more competitive, bigger grids and the best racing we can. I think that is what is spawning a new race org, to add something that is missing or make changes to things that others dont agree with. Ive never ran CVMA or WEAR, but Ive heard people mention how great and simple CVMA is. Dont get me wrong, I love racing with the AFM and the friends Ive made, but maybe some restructuring is needed. People will find and buy or build a bike to race with whatever class structure is set up.
 

dtrides

Well-known member
. The worst thing any club can do is be content, just think we should always be looking at ways to make things more competitive, bigger grids and the best racing we can.

Will it really bring more riders or just divide up current riders in a different manor?
There are already top tier classes that are very competitive, why not just race in one of those classes if that is ones goal?
I get that folks would like to see more riders out there and I support that, if it can be done in a realistic manor.
If we are just shuffling existing riders into fewer classes, then I am not sure .
DT
 

Holeshot

Super Moderator
Staff member
I hope CRA already has a chat started with the other clubs so they can avoid running on the same weekend.

They have. Dustin and I are great friends so we've talked about this for some time now. Trackdaz has always been a well ran organization and Dustin was previously involved with CVMA and their ascension to prominence. I have no doubt he can do the same again, if not better. Gigi and Dan are top shelf people too.

I have high hopes for CRA as a new race club in SoCal. Said as a racer and as the AFM President. We should meet up there and hit some laps Rober!

It'll be interesting to watch another club try to make longer races profitable. WERA did it years ago and eventually dropped them. I wonder how much racers are willing to pay for races that are 3x as long. 2x? 3x?

Solid point. A race event is monetized by $$/minute of rental time. Less down time = more income minutes. If bikes aren't going around the track, we're giving up income. Pretty simple formula, but not so simple without a crystal ball. turnout and races per rider are the two most important metrics. Selling a racer more races at the event is the way to make racing cheapest and keep the club solvent. More time on track for a class/ race = higher entry fee.

but maybe some restructuring is needed.

Be careful who you listen to and what their experience levels are for running club events Mike. The numbers have to work for the event to take place/ club to continue. It's the matrix of income intake VS class structure/ race day that has always seemed to be a challenge. You've got a direct link to any of us on the board you want to talk to, especially me. Don't hesitate to reach out if you want to know how the sauce is simmered!
 

stangmx13

not Stan
They have. Dustin and I are great friends so we've talked about this for some time now. Trackdaz has always been a well ran organization and Dustin was previously involved with CVMA and their ascension to prominence. I have no doubt he can do the same again, if not better. Gigi and Dan are top shelf people too.

I have high hopes for CRA as a new race club in SoCal. Said as a racer and as the AFM President. We should meet up there and hit some laps Robert!

Solid point. A race event is monetized by $$/minute of rental time. Less down time = more income minutes. If bikes aren't going around the track, we're giving up income. Pretty simple formula, but not so simple without a crystal ball. turnout and races per rider are the two most important metrics. Selling a racer more races at the event is the way to make racing cheapest and keep the club solvent. More time on track for a class/ race = higher entry fee.

I really hope I get to turn laps next year. I've got things in the works. I'll hit u up when it finally works out.

Hopefully their long races are some of the largest grids in the state. And hopefully that means the extra cost can be offset some by the sheer number of grip spots they are selling.

We just all need to remind racers to not be "scared" of longer races. Ya, its harder and you'll need more skill and fitness to do well. But thats the fun part! And don't worry about getting lapped. It happens and the passers have the skill to do it well.
 

scratchpad

Well-known member
AFM has continously for the last several years randomly given FP whatever laps Barb and the raise of hands wants. 12-16 depending on the whos who shows up at all tracks. Catering to FP. At the same time, because of "limiting time constraints at Sonoma" ("crashes"), taken away a lap to two from the rest of the club. More times than not the racing for the day is done well ahead of time of up to an hour.

Formula classes for each weight could have longer races +2 or more. It still hasnt been done and its been talked about for years. Its not the popular vote it seems. I believe it takes someone who wants to volunteer the time, wants to write out proposals, can make the meetings and also wants longer races. Seems like there is a large crowd that doesnt want anymore laps than 6. Example: Few years ago Berto asked for a raise of hands at Thunderhill to lower laps because it was hot out and people have a long drive home etc etc. There was quite a few in favor.

Same old song and dance. Im with the unpopular and want longer racing. Just for one race whether its 110 degrees out or 50 i know what i signed up for. Add more laps and ill show up to those events. Keep it the same and ill still show up, selectively.
 

Holeshot

Super Moderator
Staff member
I really hope I get to turn laps next year. I've got things in the works. I'll hit u up when it finally works out.

That'll be great if it works out. Would love to spin laps with you again, soon!

AFM has continously for the last several years randomly given FP whatever laps Barb and the raise of hands wants. 12-16 depending on the whos who shows up at all tracks. Catering to FP. At the same time, because of "limiting time constraints at Sonoma" ("crashes"), taken away a lap to two from the rest of the club. More times than not the racing for the day is done well ahead of time of up to an hour.

Formula classes for each weight could have longer races +2 or more. It still hasnt been done and its been talked about for years. Its not the popular vote it seems. I believe it takes someone who wants to volunteer the time, wants to write out proposals, can make the meetings and also wants longer races. Seems like there is a large crowd that doesnt want anymore laps than 6. Example: Few years ago Berto asked for a raise of hands at Thunderhill to lower laps because it was hot out and people have a long drive home etc etc. There was quite a few in favor.

Same old song and dance. Im with the unpopular and want longer racing. Just for one race whether its 110 degrees out or 50 i know what i signed up for. Add more laps and ill show up to those events. Keep it the same and ill still show up, selectively.

Totally agree with the longer laps for Formula classes Aaron. We got qualifying approved for F classes. The next step has always been 2-3 more laps for Formula classes and (fingers crossed), top 10 plates coming from the Formula classes only. That's been my dream, at least....
 

MR662

AFM #662
They have. Dustin and I are great friends so we've talked about this for some time now. Trackdaz has always been a well ran organization and Dustin was previously involved with CVMA and their ascension to prominence. I have no doubt he can do the same again, if not better. Gigi and Dan are top shelf people too.

I have high hopes for CRA as a new race club in SoCal. Said as a racer and as the AFM President. We should meet up there and hit some laps Rober!



Solid point. A race event is monetized by $$/minute of rental time. Less down time = more income minutes. If bikes aren't going around the track, we're giving up income. Pretty simple formula, but not so simple without a crystal ball. turnout and races per rider are the two most important metrics. Selling a racer more races at the event is the way to make racing cheapest and keep the club solvent. More time on track for a class/ race = higher entry fee.



Be careful who you listen to and what their experience levels are for running club events Mike. The numbers have to work for the event to take place/ club to continue. It's the matrix of income intake VS class structure/ race day that has always seemed to be a challenge. You've got a direct link to any of us on the board you want to talk to, especially me. Don't hesitate to reach out if you want to know how the sauce is simmered!

No matter what I’m thrilled to have a NorCal racing club and be a member of the AFM. You all do great work behind the scenes and it’s something I’d never want to do. Too time consuming. I’m really impressed with you all getting to 2021 schedule out so quickly.

Still though any club can always learn from others. Hopefully CRA is very successful because that helps the motorcycle industry and AFM can see if they do anything better and maybe make changes if needed. I know there’s a reason the AFM has been around so long, I’d just like to see bigger grids in all classes.
 

Holeshot

Super Moderator
Staff member
Totally agree we clubs can all learn from one another. I'm glad it's Dustin, Gigi, and Dan as the principles of CRA.
 

MR662

AFM #662
So looking at their calendar, they're running config # 26 on one of the weekends. I just took a look at track map and that's running the drag strip in to Mazda turn. Never ran that config before. Anyone here done that? The straight looks longer then Thunderhill and carrying more speed into the straight from Riverside then you would from turn 15 onto front straight at Thill. :wow
 

Kalvin00

Well-known member
So looking at their calendar, they're running config # 26 on one of the weekends. I just took a look at track map and that's running the drag strip in to Mazda turn. Never ran that config before. Anyone here done that? The straight looks longer then Thunderhill and carrying more speed into the straight from Riverside then you would from turn 15 onto front straight at Thill. :wow

Nope. Rough measurement shows THill straight is about 2200 feet vs. BW 3100 feet for that configuration.

I found a video of Chad Lewin on a lap in reverse configuration from that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVD1WOTSSy8
 

TWF

training hard
Nope. Rough measurement shows THill straight is about 2200 feet vs. BW 3100 feet for that configuration.

I found a video of Chad Lewin on a lap in reverse configuration from that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVD1WOTSSy8

I have run that reverse, not sure if it was track day or afm trying in practice. I was on 1000 and front would come up in air right before riverside. It was blast.
Unfortunately afm would always find reason not to race any other configuration.
 

scratchpad

Well-known member
So looking at their calendar, they're running config # 26 on one of the weekends. I just took a look at track map and that's running the drag strip in to Mazda turn. Never ran that config before. Anyone here done that? The straight looks longer then Thunderhill and carrying more speed into the straight from Riverside then you would from turn 15 onto front straight at Thill. :wow

We used to race that config in reverse once a year. Its a fun configuration in reverse. Never done it CW.

Where is the calendar for CRA?
 
Last edited:
Top