Lost the front while braking

[zixaq]

Every crash seems to be a confluence of several things going wrong at once. In this case, all (maybe sans one slick spot) of those things were my fault. Lesson learned.

Heading home from SFMC movie night on Saturday, I was goofing off a bit and was braking at what I thought was hard but reasonable rate on Dolores. I was down to about 35-40 mph coming up to a stop sign when the front lost traction and immediately went wobbly. Next thing I know I'm tumbling/sliding into the curb. Here's everything I think I did wrong:

1) Riding too fast and braking too aggressively for conditions. The roads were still wet and my tires were probably still cold. Actin like I had normal traction was a mistake.

2) Not expecting some kind of slick spot to show up. Happens rarely, but does happen, and I wasn't ready.

3) Putting weight on the bars. If I had been light on the bars, could have eased off the brakes and saved it no fuss, but I wasn't. I'm going to change my bar setup to reduce the temptation to lean on them and be more conscientious of this.

4) Not wearing riding pants. Lost most of the skin on my right knee for no reason. The rest of my gear did a pretty good job. Denim is completely useless as protection.

I'm paying for my mistakes with a broken thumb and some cracked ribs, and assorted minor bruises and road rash. Helmet did a great job and I've already ordered another one (Bell RS-1). The bike survived without any major mechanical problems, although all the plastic was shattered and needs replaced, so once I can use my stupid thumb again I'll be off to P&C to get that mended.

 

[EastBayDave]

Glad you came thru mostly ok; so many times it could have been much, much worse (shivers.)

Uh oh, EBD bandwagon: One thing new rain riders always underestimate, is the amount of traction you have in the rain. It's NEVER as much as you have in the dry, & your tires never warm up enough to get decent traction. Few exceptions of course (grippy roads & the racetrack w/expert riders.)

My biggest fear is the "slick spot" unseen as you approach. You may never see it until you hit the ground. It could be as simple as just a slick spot in the asphalt/concrete roadway, or maybe a tar-snake (I HATE tar-snakes.)

Then there's the paint lines f/traffic control, trolley/rail-road tracks, steel plates/etc. ;horrid around here especially downtown in the big city. In other states & countries, sandpaper like paint is required. Why not here? Too busy w/self driving car concerns? BLAH

The most absolute horrid, is the hidden/unseen oil/fluid spill. Antifreeze w/o question has to be worst. Tranny oil/power steering fluid/diesel oil/grease; you know what I speaketh. Beware the hidden dangers or pay the price. I once hit a tranny oil spill; the front locked for like 50'; somehow I didn't bail. I still don't know how I stayed aboard.

Also please, save your "clover-leafing" for dry days guys. Even then, take a "once over" run before getting "locked-in."

Short war story: I'll never forget seeing one riding group partner lowsiding his beautiful fire engine red 78' Moto-Guzzi "Lemans." One of the prettiest rides in our group. Totaled because of "cloverleafing" over spilled diesel, even I never saw it. Least he didn't get hurt, but was he heart-broken. :cry

To bottom line it; be careful out there folks. Staying aboard is the most important thing w/riding. Riding in the rain must be one of the more dangerous things we do. Enjoy your ride; just use caution when wet.

FWIW, IMHO,

-ebd

 

[danate]

Sorry to hear Scott. Hope you heal quickly.

One quick question. When you were braking, were you straight up and down or were you turning?

Also, where were you looking while you were braking? I ask because if you were not looking straight ahead, the tendency is to steer towards whichever way you are looking (i.e. if you are looking right while braking straight ahead, you will likely be putting a little bar input on the right side). This is a very common reason why people go down in the maximum braking exercise in the CMSP course. If they are looking straight ahead, they simply slide forward and have time to release and reapply. If they turn their head (often looking over at the instructor), they give input to the bars and go down on that side.

There are some big extra precautions we have to take when braking on wet surfaces. While clean, smooth pavement can still provide excellent traction, little things like tar snakes, metal covers, paint, etc. can become exponentially more slippery and are much more hazardous. Did you notice anything like this where you went down?

 

[motomania2007]

Sorry to hear about the crash. Crashing sux!

Changing the bars is probably not the solution to not weighting the bars.

Sitting on the bike properly is very likely part of the solution.

Unweighting the bars is definitely part of the solution by gripping the tank with your knees and activating the muscles in your abdomen and back to support your weight.

Lots more practice is definitely part of the solution.

 

[zixaq]

@nate Walked back through the area after the crash, but I was still a bit wobbly and it was dark, so I might have missed something. No paint/manhole covers. I was going straight but I had just swerved around some palm tree debris, so it's possible I was still straightening out from that a bit. There was about a 20' skid mark where the front tire slid.

@motomania I know my technique is the problem, but I had replaced my handlebars with FZ1 bars, which are quite a bit lower, and I have been catching myself leaning on them a bit. Raising them an inch or so will hopefully reduce the temptation to do that, but I will also be working on being more diligent.

Orto doctor told me yesterday that I'm supposed to keep this splint on for a month.

 

[Aware]

Assume the approach to a stop sign or light will always be slick.

 

[EastBayDave]

Assume the approach to a stop sign or light will always be slick.

best advice I've heard all day :thumbup :afm199

 

[zixaq]

So, related but not the most important cause, I think my front end is still wobbly under braking, even if I don't put any weight on the bars (which is what I previously assumed was causing the wobbly).

Anything that would cause that? Pads seem okay and they're not rubbing any more than usual.

 

[Enchanter]

So, related but not the most important cause, I think my front end is still wobbly under braking, even if I don't put any weight on the bars (which is what I previously assumed was causing the wobbly).

Anything that would cause that? Pads seem okay and they're not rubbing any more than usual.

That fits best outside of the Crash Analysis forum. You may want to start a thread in General, or the Garage.

 

[quicksparks]

Wobbly huh? That is pretty subjective and vague. What feels rock solid to me might feel wobbly to you. And how would you characterize the instability? Without a better description I'd be grasping...brakes, suspension, steering, other controls...

I'm trying to keep this on topic for CA...do you have any experienced friends who could ride your bike and see if they report the same perceived wobbliness? You may be able to rule out mechanical issues and focus on your skills instead.

If your bike has problems, you should sort them out with an expert's help. If you're interested in building your own troubleshooting/repair repertoire head into Moto Guild formerly known as Moto Shop and start asking for advise. Someone there should be able to point out any obvious culprits and get you started learning how to fix them.

So, related but not the most important cause, I think my front end is still wobbly under braking, even if I don't put any weight on the bars (which is what I previously assumed was causing the wobbly).

Anything that would cause that? Pads seem okay and they're not rubbing any more than usual.

 

[afm199]

Just to clarify something, when you brake, the weight transfer puts the same amount of weight on the front whether you hold onto the bars or grip the tank with your knees. What does happen sometimes is that we weight one side of the bars more than the other, but that typically happens on acceleration, not deceleration. What is quite possible is that you simply washed out the front with too aggressive braking, and the grip on the bars would not change that.

 

[Sharky]

Just to clarify something, when you brake, the weight transfer puts the same amount of weight on the front whether you hold onto the bars or grip the tank with your knees. What does happen sometimes is that we weight one side of the bars more than the other, but that typically happens on acceleration, not deceleration. What is quite possible is that you simply washed out the front with too aggressive braking, and the grip on the bars would not change that.

With 20' of skidmark, sounds like the front tire was overwhelmed from the git' go. If rubber was left on the road there must have been sufficient grip to make a pretty quick stop just as long as the weight was transferred/progressive brake pressure was applied.

 

[EastBayDave]

I was going straight but I had just swerved around some palm tree debris, so it's possible I was still straightening out from that a bit. There was about a 20' skid mark where the front tire slid

Likely still had some crap on the tire/or still leaned or both. It just took a rotation or a few for you to actually hit that spot w/brakes on/or it hadn't cleaned off yet. Think several rotations, turning both directions (to scuf both sides of tire off.)

Riding around town almost never gets the tire warm enough to really grip like it does w/fully warmed up in the twisties/or on the racetrack. You hit a light, sit awhile, hit a stop sign, & the same. Sit @ a long light & it loses all the heat you might have had in it. Slippy city. :wow Also, the freeway higher speeds will warm up the center of the tire, but NOT the sidewalls. Think.

This is exactly why I almost never terrorize around town. Bailed the z650 in the first serious turn I took after mounting a brand new PZ2 Michelin. Hadn't thought about it being slightly damp & new/cold tire. Zzziiippp! Boing'a.

{Only time I ever crashed mr old 65' GTO was hitting a pile of wet leaves right after a light rain/was drying. Total washout; into buds 63' caddy= woops!:mad}

I think about this always; no more bailing for silly reasons.:ride

 

[LittleBigGirl]

Sorry to hear about your spill and I hope you heal up quickly. Thank you for sharing your experience of what went wrong.

Were you only using the front brake, or both? I wonder if back only would have been helpful because it's been so wet? I have been using a lot more back brake even the day after a rainy day because I notice that the roads have been taking a long time to dry out...

Get well soon.

 

[James]

I am curious about the brake application as well. 20' of a skid mark is quite a distance.

Motorcycling is about balance, and that includes balanced braking. I ride an old heavy FZ1 and I average 50/50 braking in all conditions. Traffic/twisties, day/night, dry/wet, full gear/t-shirt and jeans, etc.

Glad you had minor injuries. One day, just for fun, I t-boned an Expedition and broke a tiny bone in my wrist. The Doctor made me wear a full cast for 12 weeks. To his credit, the fracture did heal properly.

James

 

[Cafe Racer]

Heal well.

Crashing sucks. But the information that you can pull out of the incident can be priceless.

Been there... I learned my lesson. Its good to hear you are up and around.

 

[ZeteticRaider]

Hope you're healing up fast. Thanks for sharing. Learned a lot of good stuff here. I never thought about how much tires can cool down when there are numerous stops.