Help me find the right bike for technical single-track

[ScottRNelson]

I feel like I'm missing out on a lot of good single-track riding since my smallest bike is a 350 pound XR650L. I'm expecting, sometime in the next year, to have a way to haul a bike to the hills, at which point I could get a more serious dirt bike. And living in Idaho, I could license it for street use in case I have to ride a few miles of highway here and there. There's always the KTM 500 EXC, which is about 90 pounds lighter and can be made to have similar range. If I got one of those, I'm not sure I would need to keep the Honda.

I'm tempted by the KTM two strokes, like the 250 and 300 XC or XC-W models. If they have a model named for the Erzberg Rodeo, it's probably pretty good at technical off road riding. I kind of like the new 2-stroke TPI models because they're a little bit lighter than the 4-stroke models of similar power and other than keeping the oil tank filled they're pretty easy to live with - electric start and all that. I think I would really enjoy a 220 pound dirt bike.

Are there any models from the four Japanese makers that would behave similarly?

I'm not interested in some under-powered beginner bike like some of the Yamaha XT and Honda CRF models from 250cc on down. But I don't really want something that requires an expert rider either. I have a lot of dirt experience, but am no expert by any means.

What suggestions can you dirty BARFers offer?

 

[1962siia]

I have a 200 xcw that is my trail bike. I love it but I also just picked up a 2020 350 excf and it feels just as light and I think it is going to be a fantastic trail bike. I suspect the 200 will be going up for sale soon. I was really surprised by how light the 350 feels compared to the 200.

 

[chrisweir.com]

You are correct sir, the ultimate drool inducing bike for the riding you describe is: https://www.ktm.com/en-us/models/enduro/2-stroke/ktm-300-xc-w-tpi2021.html

 

[OaklandF4i]

Scott, for a dedicated single track dirt bike that you can trailer to the trails.... don't consider anything larger than a 350 four stroke. While a 500 and 350 may be the same weight on paper, the 500 will flat out wear you down so much faster. Now there will always be the contrarian who will come in here and argue you can ride a 450 MX bike on single track, and you can if young, in shape, and have superior skills... but the general consensus is smaller is better even for super skilled riders. Hard enduro guys dont ride 500's on the single track and you shouldnt either. :afm199

A 250 or 350 fourstroke is all you need. Choose a model designed specifically for offroad. Yamaha's YZ250FX (e start four stroke), YZ250X (kick only two stroke) or WR250F (e start fourstroke.) X designating offroad for Yamaha, just some examples.

You cant go wrong with any of KTM XC-W, or EXC-F, Husqvarna FE or TE, or even Beta offroad models these days. These brands also offer plates on many of the their offroad models... but at a premium price.

Real question is if you want 2 or 4 stroke. The advantages of a 2 stroke is generally less weight and significantly cheaper running costs over their lifetime (2 or 4 stroke are going to need more maintenance then the bikes currently in your stable AND maintenance is rebuilding motors.) These bikes are not the XR's of yore. This is the only place where the 500 has a real advantage in my mind. Rebuilds are needed less frequently on big bores for the average rider.

Fourstrokes are generally easier for most folks to ride. I grew up on two strokes and prefer them. Not everyone is the same. So I would generally suggest anyone new or returning after a long lay off from real dirtbikes to choose a 4 stroke unless budget is really limited.

If you don't need a plate, my number one suggestion would be the Yamaha WR250F for single track riding. I'd be happy riding one.

Just my experience and opinion, others will vary. Some if for no other reason than to argue. :laughing

 

[ScottRNelson]

... and you can if young, in shape, and have superior skills...

Nope, nope, and nope. :laughing

If you don't need a plate, my number one suggestion would be the Yamaha WR250F for single track riding. I'd be happy riding one.

Looks like you give up about 20 pounds buying a Yamaha over a KTM. Probably $100 per pound savings, though.

And with a lighting kit, one of those can get a plate in Idaho. You can get a plate on pretty much anything here. :cool

 

[WoodsChick]

As usual, CJ lays down the truth.

As someone who spent a few years riding as much Idaho single track as I could I’d suggest the lightest gruntiest bike you can get. I’m not sure what kind of single track you rode while here in CA, but I can guarantee you it was probably easier than anything you’ll find in Idaho. Our first 2-week riding trip there we were on new first-gen WR’s, a 250 for me and a 426 for Eric. Our next trip a few months later found us on 2-stroke GasGases. Much better for that terrain. Set up the suspension well for rocks and you’re good to go.

We found Idaho to be the Mecca of single track. I spent the next few years trying to talk Eric into moving there. When he finally gave in I couldn’t quit my job. What a fool I was...

 

[Eric B]

2 stroke. A 200, 220, 250, 300 rides "light", has good grunt down low, low maintenance, usually has a kick starter in case the battery goes flat.

 

[OaklandF4i]

Nope, nope, and nope. :laughing


Looks like you give up about 20 pounds buying a Yamaha over a KTM. Probably $100 per pound savings, though.

And with a lighting kit, one of those can get a plate in Idaho. You can get a plate on pretty much anything here. :cool

They are much closer in weight than that, 5-10 lbs at most on comparable models. Remember KTM still quotes dry weight, Yamaha is ready to ride full tank of gas and all those other fluids that keep an engine running. Close enough in weight that you wont know the difference.

Not going to knock the KTMs, they are FANtastic bikes. But something else to consider if keeping long term is parts prices. OEM KTM/Husqvarna parts are significantly more expensive unless you buy aftermarket parts. Price out an oem crank, conrod kit, piston, rings and compare them to the Yamaha. Your jaw will drop. I've helped a fellow Barfer rebuild his Husky 350 twice and always amazed at the silly prices they get for engine components.

That said, within the year I'll probably riding a KTM or Husky as my desert and dual sport bike. No other real choices besides Beta. But I'll be keeping my YZ for a primary offroad bike and if purchasing a new offroad bike, I'd be strongly considering the YZ250FX or WR if going 4 stroke.

Good luck and happy shopping! :thumbup

 

[budman]

2 stroke. A 200, 220, 250, 300 rides "light", has good grunt down low, low maintenance, usually has a kick starter in case the battery goes flat.

KTM 300 two smoke would be awesome.
That shit rocks. Street legal. :confused.

If I was an Idaho man that would be my choice.

:2cents

 

[elemetal]

Bike Weights

2014 500 EXC stock tank full

130 Fr
138 rr 268 lbs total


2013 WR 250r 4.7 gal tank/ 1/3 full

139 Fr
149 rr 288 lbs total



2004 625 SXC 4.3 gal tank, full

165 Fr
187 rr 350 lbs total



1993 MXC 550 3 gal tank, 1 gal full

117 Fr
116 rr 233 lbs total



GG 300 xc stock tank 2.3 gal, 1.2 gal full

123 Fr
132 rr 255 lbs total


2016 Vertigo 300 tank near empty

76 Fr
76 rr 152 lbs total

2011 GG 125 txt 1/2 tank

74 Fr
74 rr 148 lbs total

Forgot to add my 300tx, it's about 230 with gas (super light for a protected 300), AER forks help with that.


These were all weighed with my auto scales, I list the front/rear bias as well. Was curios as to what things ready to ride actually weighed, surprised that the KTM 500 was as light as it is and how heavy the WR was (note that it is the R so street legal from the factory).

Lightest, flickiest bike I ever rode was a KTM 200, 2004. This had the earlier small frame (same as the 125 rather than the bigger 250/300 brothers), pds and open cartridge forks. I doubt that bike weighed over 215 with gas, if I didn't weigh 210 or we lived in flat midwest I'd have one.

As the weight goes down you get less tired over the day but the thing I find with myself is I'm more "curious" on a small, light bike. Drag it over that big log, see if it can get up that nasty scramble, etc. Because it's so light you try things that a bigger, more powerful bike might steer you away from. Like Woodschick mentioned, they went back with much lighter 2ts....just fun to poke around on something small.

No wonder I got into trials..... : )

 

[1962siia]

I think you should ride before you buy. A big part of riding trails is confidence. When I was shopping for a trail bike a few years back I was coming off a 1996 cr250 that I had tuned for the trail. I never really liked the bike that much but it was tuned pretty mellow which I liked. Within a minute of riding the 200xcw I loved it. It felt like a mountain bike with incredible power and suspension. I ride that bike and it makes me better because I actually have to use the power, feather the clutch, etc and twisting the throttle gets the bike moving but not so crazy that I try to avoid getting on the pipe. When I ride friends 300's I normally will be a gear up and trying to avoid the power band because for me its just too much especially on single track. But that low end grunt is impressive!

Recently I rode a friends 2016 Husky FE350 while we were at Penny Pines. Immediately I felt more comfortable and confident and was faster than I am on the 200. Breaking the rear wheel free on a 4t is just way more comfortable for me than on the 2t. I like the way 4t traction feels and the way it lays down linear power. So glad I rode that bike, although my bank account isn't. :laughing

I'd imagine in Idaho you probably already know people with a wide variety of awesome trail bikes. Go for a ride and try them, you'll find the right bike I'm sure.

And I'm really torn on selling my 200. It is seriously dialed for me. I should probably keep it for 6 month and see how I feel after the 350 is no longer new and shiny. Good luck on the hunt.

 

[Eric B]

Excellent point on the “curious” aspect, Luke.

 

[ScottRNelson]

Excellent point on the “curious” aspect, Luke.

Oh, I understand that. When I'm out riding my KTM 790R and see an interesting road that looks like it might get steep and rough I'm thinking of how hard it will be to turn the thing around when it gets too difficult. With a light bike you just slide one end of it around and you're on your way. With a bit of effort I can sort of slide the rear end around on my XR650L when necessary, but not with the bigger KTM.

And this is the whole reason I'm trying to figure out what I should get. I want something that I can get out of a tight spot once I get into one.

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice so far. :thumbup

 

[KooLaid]

I have the 2020 300 XCW, amazing single track and technical machine.

Beta Xtrainer is a good option and the Beta 300rr, 200rr, YZ250X, YZ125X, YZ250FX, Sherco 300, 150 XC-W, 350 XC-FW, TE 300i, TE 250i, TE 150i, FE 350, FE 501. The euro bikes betting better at going slow while the japanese options are supposed to be great bikes but possibly not as low geared.

 

[OaklandF4i]

I have the 2020 300 XCW, amazing single track and technical machine.

Beta Xtrainer is a good option and the Beta 300rr, 200rr, YZ250X, YZ125X, YZ250FX, Sherco 300, 150 XC-W, 350 XC-FW, TE 300i, TE 250i, TE 150i, FE 350, FE 501. The euro bikes betting better at going slow while the japanese options are supposed to be great bikes but possibly not as low geared.

I forgot about the Beta Xtrainer, fantastic suggestion. Does KTM still make their free ride? Similar and also good suggestion.

 

[KooLaid]

I forgot about the Beta Xtrainer, fantastic suggestion. Does KTM still make their free ride? Similar and also good suggestion.

Yes, I was gonna mention the freeride but I believe it's only available as an E bike now and the 350 and 2 stroke (forgot what cc) are not available anymore. They're super rare though and the fuel tanks are small. They're more trials than trail though apparently. I'd still rock one on the trails. The Xtrainer is more trail than trials.

 

[KooLaid]

Should also consider the KTM 500, buddy just bought one and loves it. Fairly light too.

Another option worth looking into is converting any 2000+ YZ250. I hear they're pretty amazing once you do all the mods to tone it down.

 

[OaklandF4i]

Yes, I was gonna mention the freeride but I believe it's only available as an E bike now and the 350 and 2 stroke (forgot what cc) are not available anymore. They're super rare though and the fuel tanks are small. They're more trials than trail though apparently. I'd still rock one on the trails. The Xtrainer is more trail than trials.

Should also consider the KTM 500, buddy just bought one and loves it. Fairly light too.

Another option worth looking into is converting any 2000+ YZ250. I hear they're pretty amazing once you do all the mods to tone it down.

While we all will be riding e bikes in our lifetime, they don't do it for me at the moment. Cool technology, but I wouldn't choose to ride for now.

I agree with the YZ250, mine is modded to all the YZ250X specs. While I can't speak for Scott, I assume he is looking at new or nearer to new bikes.

I just rode 2020 350 with the ECU done last weekend and a modded 450 right after. For me at my skill and conditioning level, the 250-350 4t or 250-300 2t are just perfect for single track. While light on paper, the 450 and 500 just have too much grunt, and wear me out in short order on single track. For me its the HP, and I can go faster for longer on smaller displacement bikes. It was the same impression I had of the Husqvarna 501 when I rode it. For a dualsport or the desert they would be perfect (or young guys on the track.)

When I went away from the big 450 to the two stroke, I really started enjoying the tight technical stuff again. That's just me, everyone is different of course. :thumbup

Perfect world I'd have Husqvarna TE300, FE350S, and a FE501S. If I could have just two, the TE300 and FE501S. Just one, FE350S for the plate. If I ever got serious about racing off road, I'd be looking hard at that YZ250FX too. Or a friend getting back into riding single track, the WR250F. Or any of the Beta, KTM, Husky equivelants. Lots of great offroad specific bikes these days. :ride

As a pure single track toy, can't believe there would be a better bike than the Beta Xtrainer if you wanted something to try real technical riding without the big intimidation factor short of a trials bike and still be able to ride the trails.

 

[ScottRNelson]

Gonna try out a CRF230 tomorrow. A guy that I like to ride with has a whole garage full of bikes and wanted to do some more serious off road riding than I can handle with an adventure bike. I think we'll be riding around at this place (Overhead shot).

One step at a time...

 

[HadesOmega]

Single Track Weapon/Cheater bike, I remember I put to shame these dudes riding KTMs and Husky dirtbike when I rode this up the Deer Valley OHV Jeep trail. I was rippin up the trail hopping tree roots and rock gardens and I see the guys that left half an hour earlier than me taking a break at the not too far from the start looking like they were exhausted riding their big dirt bikes. I just laughed as I whizzed on by. I was expecting to see them again later because I doubled back to the trail head but it looks like they bailed, couldn't handle it hah!

Yup double red diamond!

Looks technical to me

They call this the GATEKEEPER