Fully adjustable suspension is a curse

Karbon

Hyper hoñorary
You might think that fully adjustable suspension is a cool thing to have. Low and High speed compression, rebound, and spring preload. Lots of shiny anodized adjusters and 32 clicks of range. However I've found that it is actually a curse, and it comes down to a mental thing.

When I ride a bike with too many available adjustments, I constantly think about how to change them and what could need adjustment to fully optimize the setup. It's a never-ending game of clickers and tweaking things back and forth trying to achieve perfection on a variety of road surfaces.

However, with a non-adjustable bike, I must accept that the suspension is the way it is and learn to ride around it. That way, I am focusing on my riding techniques rather than the machine. It's somehow nicer...


I was reading a review on the S1000XR vs Multi and they said despite the Multi having 10 adjustable settings for all the suspension features and traction control, the BMW's 3 or 4 settings really simplified things and worked fine. Too many options, and it gets overwhelming... how do you know what is the best?

Anyone agree?

no. once you have a base setting, base road & pace you can actually start dialing it the way you want for the given context. It takes time and special attention but its not all overwhelming.
 
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wakked1

Wookie
I disagree, one reason I got the Multi over other option is that while there are still 4 presets, you can customize them.

And I have, making the Sport settings harder for track use, and actually softened up Touring for backroads. And changed preload in all the modes. And TC, even the ABS settings.

That was after renting the 1190 and GSW and being annoyed by their inability to customize.
 

clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
I was reading a review on the S1000XR vs Multi and they said despite the Multi having 10 adjustable settings for all the suspension features and traction control, the BMW's 3 or 4 settings really simplified things and worked fine. Too many options, and it gets overwhelming... how do you know what is the best?

Anyone agree?
You can adjust the suspension independently, as long as the "coding plug" is installed.
BMW keeps taking the S1000RR stuff and putting it on similar bikes. Makes sense, since they made the R&D investment. And yes, too many choices can be too many. However. I find my S1000RR suspension most useful on the street because of it's electronic adjustability while riding.
Thanks for the post :thumbup

When I say infinite settings... it really does feel that way sometimes. For example... a fork with 28 compression clicks, 28 rebound clicks, and 10mm of preload. That's 7,840 combinations. Even if we take your suggestion of 4 clicks in either direction - that's still 640 combinations. Which one is the correct setting?........
Four clicks from factory may work sometimes. Other times it won't. I have a bike that runs all but 1/4 turn from closed on fork rebound and 1/2 turn from closed on compression. And another bike runs 1/4 turn from fully open on the shock. These are all way off from factory settings that were 2-2 1/2 turns from full closed. So who knows.

I agree with your premise. One can spend a lot of time trying to find the "perfect" settings. And once things get out of synchroization, you can really waste a lot of time trying to figure out what the hell is going on. At least for me, because I am a dummy when it comes to this stuff. And often forget what I REALLY liked better. :laughing
 

KazMan

2012 Fifty is Nifty Tour!
Staff member
Nice write-up GP Supsension

For my race bikes/team, we tune for each track on that given day, with the goal to only make changes when we are at fastest pace so that we are not chasing tuning suspension for first session practices. Of course, that could change if ambient temp is way different.

For my everyday commute bike, I have tuned it for the most all around conditions (even if it's the stock suspension of '14 FZ-09 and we all know how that is) and then I learn to ride around the limits of that setting. If it's super smooth, super bumpy, super goaty, in my mind I understand what this suspension can do and seek to make my lines crisper, smoother, or ride within the suspension range or use my legs/body to make up the rest. Kinda like riding a 1970's street/dirt bike mentality :laughing But then I lived through that so it's in the neural archives :nerd :laughing
 

stangmx13

not Stan
i disagree w/ the original points for a few reasons. all IMO of course.

1. theres not all that much extra to be learned from riding on a bad setup. u might actually be learning bad techniques by riding around the suspension issues.
2. non-adjustable bikes generally come w/ shit suspension due to cost savings. damper rod forks, mismatched springrates, useless damping curves, etc etc. the same issues can exist on adjustable bikes, but at least u can usually get it closer to an acceptable baseline.
3. the exercise of learning what suspension adjustments do and how they feel is something every rider should experience.
 

Hoho

Ride to Eat
To put things simply:
Rebound: controls the return stroke of the fork/ shock. More rebound (turning the clicker out, to the left) means a quicker/ harsher return stroke. Less rebound means a softer and slower rebound stroke. This can allow the fork to "pack in" and not return to its full operating length range, decreasing the travel of your fork/ shock. Turning the clicker in, to the right closes the rebound valving down and slows the return action of the fork/ shock.

Compression: Controls the initial impact/ up stroke of the fork/ shock. Turning the clicker out to the left softens the compression stroke and gives less control over bump resistance. The fork/ shock will be more compliant, but have a more muffled feel. Turning the clicker to the right will stiffen the compression valving. The fork/ shock will feel sharper and firmer. Compression can be used as a band aid for too light of a spring rate, but the drawback is a harsher suspender.

Preload: adjustable preload (not installed which is fixed and not adjustable with a nob/ remote adjustor) changes the effective weight on one end of the motorcycle. To put more weight on the front of the bike, take out preload (turn to the left).

Well, shit. This is awesome! I was thinking about starting a post asking this :thumbup
 

afm199

Well-known member
i disagree w/ the original points for a few reasons. all IMO of course.

1. theres not all that much extra to be learned from riding on a bad setup. u might actually be learning bad techniques by riding around the suspension issues.
2. non-adjustable bikes generally come w/ shit suspension due to cost savings. damper rod forks, mismatched springrates, useless damping curves, etc etc. the same issues can exist on adjustable bikes, but at least u can usually get it closer to an acceptable baseline.
3. the exercise of learning what suspension adjustments do and how they feel is something every rider should experience.

Pretty much this. I've owned too many bikes that needed work to get the stock crap to do its job. SV650. Bandit 1200. Tuono.
 

kuksul08

Suh Dude
....
3. the exercise of learning what suspension adjustments do and how they feel is something every rider should experience.

I completely agree with this point. The educational aspect is a benefit of fully adjustable suspension, although it can lead down a rabbit hole. This is also why it bugs me when people say "take it to a pro and leave it there".
 

clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
Pretty much this. I've owned too many bikes that needed work to get the stock crap to do its job. SV650. Bandit 1200. Tuono.
Well, your needs and level of expertise is far higher than most people. O.P. didn't really talk about suspension that needs replacing, just the number of choices to make it the best that it can be with stock equipment.

If you don't understand motorcycle geometric dynamics and corresponding trail, wheelbase, ride height, etc, you can waste a ton of time doing nothing but getting frustrated. In that aspect, I agree with the concerns expressed in the original post. I think it is more useful to explain to a experienced person your feelings and have them set up your bike. Then you have some baseline that will be appropriate, and can go from there with experimentation.
 

stangmx13

not Stan
I completely agree with this point. The educational aspect is a benefit of fully adjustable suspension, although it can lead down a rabbit hole. This is also why it bugs me when people say "take it to a pro and leave it there".

or "the factory knows best" and leaves the adjusters in the stock setting :facepalm

suspension pros arent infallible. sometimes they make mistakes. sometimes their recommendations arent great. sometimes they dont actually know what they are doing. its taken me years to vet suspension pros until i found one whose general philosophy fits my riding style and who is capable of working on a bike at my level. "set it any forget it" just didnt work for me ever and i doubt itll work for many other riders looking for performance.
 

Holeshot

Super Moderator
Staff member
or "the factory knows best" and leaves the adjusters in the stock setting :facepalm

suspension pros arent infallible. sometimes they make mistakes. sometimes their recommendations arent great. sometimes they dont actually know what they are doing. its taken me years to vet suspension pros until i found one whose general philosophy fits my riding style and who is capable of working on a bike at my level. "set it any forget it" just didnt work for me ever and i doubt itll work for many other riders looking for performance.

AND it's kind of fun to try and learn suspension on a bike. so long as you've got your baseline, you can always go back from where you came from. As you know, change one thing at a time and make a big enough change to feel if it's the right direction. One mistake new riders make when making suspension changes is not making a big enough change to feel if the change was effective.

Kuksul: Suspension is a like a word jumble. There's plenty of letters and combinations, but there's only so many words that can be made from the letters. With Suspension, I can't imagine a scenario where you'd have the rebound dampening open all the way and compression completely closed, and vice versa. That sounds awful. Instead of just turning clickers, think about what the bike is doing that you don't like or want better. Then, think about what you'd change to make it better. If you make a change and things get worse, put the change back and try something different. You'll begin to get a feel for what the changes are doing to the bike and then, make more intelligent changes in the future. Also, work with a good shop to help you with the theory, etc.

A good suspension tuner imparts their customers with knowledge. They know you'll be back to buy some "crack" parts before long. The stock stuff is only so good...and the clickers range on a good shock or cartridge is near double what it is in a stock setup. On a mediocre one it's not worth the money. Hence the reason some manufacturers can sell a cartridge or shock for $600. They're no better than stock...
 

afm199

Well-known member
Well, your needs and level of expertise is far higher than most people. O.P. didn't really talk about suspension that needs replacing, just the number of choices to make it the best that it can be with stock equipment.

If you don't understand motorcycle geometric dynamics and corresponding trail, wheelbase, ride height, etc, you can waste a ton of time doing nothing but getting frustrated. In that aspect, I agree with the concerns expressed in the original post. I think it is more useful to explain to a experienced person your feelings and have them set up your bike. Then you have some baseline that will be appropriate, and can go from there with experimentation.

Naw, the stock SV is so bad most people bottom out the forks on hard braking. It's truly shit, and lots of stockers are like that.
 

Reli

Well-known member
Fourth: while in a wheel chock, play with the front compression from fully stiff to full soft. Bounce on the bike and see what it does each time. Next, do the same with rebound. Put the clickers back to where they were when you started.

What kind of stroke do you look for? After you let go, should the bike simply return to its resting point, or keep extending past that before coming back down? I know riding it is the only judge, but some shops make a baseline setting by just bouncing on it. What kind of stroke action are they looking for when they do that?

Rebound: controls the return stroke of the fork/ shock. More rebound (turning the clicker out, to the left) means a quicker/ harsher return stroke. Less rebound means a softer and slower rebound stroke. This can allow the fork to "pack in" and not return to its full operating length range, decreasing the travel of your fork/ shock.
I agree more rebound = harsher, shorter strokes.........but quicker?

I was always told that "packing in" is caused by too MUCH rebound, since too much rebound does not allow the suspension to fully re-extend in time before hitting the next bump.
 

stangmx13

not Stan
make sure not to get confused when truncating statements. "more rebound damping" and "more rebound velocity" are opposite statements. most ppl mean "more damping" when they say "more rebound", but GP's post went the other way.
 

Reli

Well-known member
True, when I say "Give it more rebound" I mean "Give it more rebound damping"

Looking back at what he said, he might be using the opposite, since he says "more rebound = turning the clicker to the left", which produces less rebound damping and more rebound stroke.
 
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