Finally!

[TheRobSJ]

It’s time for the BARF militia to guide my next purchase here.

Been with my wife for 14 years now. Unfortunately one of the non starters with her was having anything that goes pew pew. Mostly because her ex husband was a complete moron and brandished/pointed one at a hooligan neighbor kid once upon a time. I’m only saying this because I don’t want anyone to think I’m some complete noob here. I’ve shot an assortment of pistols at indoor ranges over the past 30 years here and there. No I don’t have thousands of rounds shot, but I know my way around them better than most of the people who just bought a gun in the past couple weeks.

Well we live in different times now. The wife has finally given me the green light to get a gun in the house. Finally. I’ll never break her on letting me get a Ducati Panigale, but I think she’s doing my back a favor on that roadblock.

Yeah yeah, in before the well too frigging late bro! All the gun stores are empty because of all the first time panic buyers. Closed right now anyways. I’m fine with waiting till all this bullshit dies down. So let’s get to the nitty gritty now shall we?

Full size, semi auto, with a rail to put a tacticool light on it. Military use perhaps. Aesthetics are important to me to some degree and I seem to like stuff with slide that looks proportional to the grip. So while I know they’re awesome, that kinda takes Glock off the table. I’ve been doing a fair amount of looking at Sigs, as something I really wanted several years ago was the Mk25 (can that even be had in CA?). It seems like the 320 X5 Legion is their newest and awesomest offering, so I’ve been watching a few videos on that. I’ve always liked (and have shot) the Beretta 92 since John McClaine saved the world in Die Hard. I’m also willing to look at the only two words in home defense, forty five. 1911s are something that seems like everyone makes and I wouldn’t rule out something like the Colt Mk45A1 but I like the HK45 too.

What say you BARF?

 

[doc4216]

My agency just switched from Sig Sauer P229s to Glock 19. The Sig is beefer for sure but I like the grip better on it than what I have on the Glock.

IMO, I like both my duty weps but my favorite is my personal M&P Shield .40 cal for conceal and ya know, my girl hands.

 

[TheRobSJ]

I have big hands. I can palm a NBA basketball if that's an indication. So concealment or needing a narrow grip is not a factor for me.

 

[ejv]

I have had 4 Glocks(3 different generations with different grips). Don't like them at all with the standard grips so I always put a hogue slip on over them and they are much nicer for me that way. Currently I only have a G19. I have the midsize backstrap installed on the 19 with the beaver tail and the hogue over the top. It's pretty nice shoots well out of the box. I used to love my P229 (both barrels 40/357) but over time I have gotten used to that Glock trigger and so now I prefer the 19 in most instances. I've also carried the M9 and the USP45. Im just not big enough to wrangle the 45 in anyway similar to a 40 or 9 so as much as I dig on 1911 style pistols I don't know that I would buy one as my only or first pistol.

 

[ejv]

With big hands you may not like a single stack 1911. Not sure how many double stack versions are out there. It used to just be para ordinance but I haven't looked in many years.

 

[TheRobSJ]

so as much as I dig on 1911 style pistols I don't know that I would buy one as my only or first pistol.

Yeah I know. I’m sure the thing has been refined quite a bit in the past century, but surely the more modern polymer framed stuff is probably better. If the wife let enough leash out for me to actually have a collection, I’m sure a 1911 would have to be in it eventually.

 

[GreenDew]

Exciting news, indeed! I'm going to try to not be a downer, but did want to introduce a little bit of Cali-reality. First is the "safe gun roster", these are the handguns certified by the state and can be sold new by your local gun store.

https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/certified-handguns/search

Once the panic dies down you should be able to get most of these at a reasonable price. Now, if you are buying a used firearm from a person and not a store, you can get pistols that aren't on the roster but you will most likely pay a premium. I mention this because the SIG P320 is not on the roster, so if you really want one of those they might be hard to find and expensive when they do come up for sale.

The only other legal/process bit I will bring up is the Firearm Safety Certificate, it is required before purchasing any firearm in CA. It's a written test that is fairly straightforward, but something you will need. Info here: https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fscpfaqs#1G

As for the options, you still have plenty. I'm a bit of a SIG fanboi so the P229 and P226 have always been attractive pistols to me. The P220 gets you the same great looks but in .45!

I thought the Mk25 was a Hecker & Koch pistol but I might be wrong on that. HK does have some seriously good handguns (that I think are beautiful) but usually come at a premium. Worth checking out if it fits your budget.

I like my Springfield XD pistols. I find them visually pleasing and they have been reliable for me.

CZ pistols are pretty popular as well and worth a look.

Anyway, as you mentioned, you probably have a bit of time to research all the options. Best of luck in your search!

 

[dravnx]

Is a handgun the best home defense weapon? I always thought a short barrel shotgun was the preferred weapon. Aim it in the general direction and fire.
Defending your home with a handgun takes training and practice.
If you live in a stick frame house, unless you hit a stud, the 9mm/40 will go right through a wall and into your neighbors house.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Exciting news, indeed! I'm going to try to not be a downer, but did want to introduce a little bit of Cali-reality. First is the "safe gun roster", these are the handguns certified by the state and can be sold new by your local gun store.

https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/certified-handguns/search

Once the panic dies down you should be able to get most of these at a reasonable price. Now, if you are buying a used firearm from a person and not a store, you can get pistols that aren't on the roster but you will most likely pay a premium. I mention this because the SIG P320 is not on the roster, so if you really want one of those they might be hard to find and expensive when they do come up for sale.

The only other legal/process bit I will bring up is the Firearm Safety Certificate, it is required before purchasing any firearm in CA. It's a written test that is fairly straightforward, but something you will need. Info here: https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/fscpfaqs#1G

As for the options, you still have plenty. I'm a bit of a SIG fanboi so the P229 and P226 have always been attractive pistols to me. The P220 gets you the same great looks but in .45!

I thought the Mk25 was a Hecker & Koch pistol but I might be wrong on that. HK does have some seriously good handguns (that I think are beautiful) but usually come at a premium. Worth checking out if it fits your budget.

I like my Springfield XD pistols. I find them visually pleasing and they have been reliable for me.

CZ pistols are pretty popular as well and worth a look.

Anyway, as you mentioned, you probably have a bit of time to research all the options. Best of luck in your search!

Yeah I know CA is probably the worst state to want to get into a gun now, but it is what it is. Quite a few I’ve had my eye on over the years are pretty much off the table. Looks like the ubiquitous Desert Eagle point five oh cant be had anymore...not that I was thinking about one or anything. Looks like one of my names choices is still fine. And the Mk25 is in fact a P226 that was made to SEAL’s specifications, has an anchor on the side, and is awesome. Perhaps you’re thinking of the Mk23, which is the ancestor of the modern HK45/45 Tactical...which is on my list, but on the CA approved list, it seems like only the USP9/40/45 is my only choice. Sucks that the “John Wick” fun, the HK VP9 doesn’t appear to be on that list either, that’s a really good looking piece.

Odd that the 320 isn’t on the list. If you look at Sig’s site, while they don’t make a specific CA compliant version of the new X5 Legion, they do have a CA model for the standard 320.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Is a handgun the best home defense weapon? I always thought a short barrel shotgun was the preferred weapon. Aim it in the general direction and fire.
Defending your home with a handgun takes training and practice.
If you live in a stick frame house, unless you hit a stud, the 9mm/40 will go right through a wall and into your neighbors house.

Thought about this. I really have no desire to have a big boomstick. I’d like to just have a handgun for really just going to the range, and now for home defense to appease the wife. So mostly I’ll be throwing ball down range with it, but I know that stuff will go through drywall pretty easy.

Years ago I read that Air Marshals carried some kind of frangible bullets to avoid over penetration. Here it is! Is it legal for civilians to have? In CA?

Or there’s always JHP. Is that legal here?

 

[GreenDew]

Yeah I know CA is probably the worst state to want to get into a gun now, but it is what it is. Quite a few I’ve had my eye on over the years are pretty much off the table. Looks like the ubiquitous Desert Eagle point five oh cant be had anymore...not that I was thinking about one or anything. Looks like one of my names choices is still fine. And the Mk25 is in fact a P226 that was made to SEAL’s specifications, has an anchor on the side, and is awesome. Perhaps you’re thinking of the Mk23, which is the ancestor of the modern HK45/45 Tactical...which is on my list, but on the CA approved list, it seems like only the USP9/40/45 is my only choice. Sucks that the “John Wick” fun, the HK VP9 doesn’t appear to be on that list either, that’s a really good looking piece.

Odd that the 320 isn’t on the list. If you look at Sig’s site, while they don’t make a specific CA compliant version of the new X5 Legion, they do have a CA model for the standard 320.

Ah, I was confusing the Mk25 with the Mk23; pretty cool that the model you want is on the roster!

The issue with the P320 and the VP9 is they were introduced as the "microstamping" provision was being implemented and the "single shot exemption" was being removed. With microstamping it's impossible for companies to make their newer models CA-compliant. Models that have been around for a while like the P226 had compliant variants prior to microstamping.

I definitely don't want to weigh down your thread with the legal issues we deal with in CA, just wanted to make sure you didn't get too excited about a specific firearm and then find out it was unavailable or difficult/expensive to obtain.

I am digging that Mk23; it's been a while since I've added to my collection but the P22x models are high on my list when I'm at that spot again.

I know on CalGuns the CZ 75 is also highly rated and might be worth a look. I'm sure others on here will chime in with some good options for you as well.

 

[GreenDew]

Thought about this. I really have no desire to have a big boomstick. I’d like to just have a handgun for really just going to the range, and now for home defense to appease the wife. So mostly I’ll be throwing ball down range with it, but I know that stuff will go through drywall pretty easy.

Years ago I read that Air Marshals carried some kind of frangible bullets to avoid over penetration. Here it is! Is it legal for civilians to have? In CA?

Or there’s always JHP. Is that legal here?

I'm not sure about the legality of frangible ammo in CA, but hollow points are legal and the preferred self/home defense choice.

When talking personal defense, I usually get a bit more serious. I would tend to stay away from the "lower end" options (like Kahr, Hi Point, or Seecamp) if your budget allows. It doesn't sound like that's where you were headed, but I put it out there just in case. Once the firearm is chosen, find a good hollow point round that reliably feeds through your specific pistol. This usually isn't an issue but every now and then the combo doesn't work. Once I'm confident in my choices, I just shoot the cheaper ball or FMJ rounds at the range.

One final consideration, safe storage at home. Doesn't have to be fancy, but some sort of cabinet or safe that keeps the firearm protected is something I would consider a must-have. You know the people in your house (kids, visitors, etc), let that guide you to a good solution.

And, to make this even longer, if you are near the south bay and want to go shooting after the quarantine is lifted, I'd be happy to go to the range with you. I'm sure I'll be chomping at the bit to pew pew once we can leave the house. :laughing

 

[TheRobSJ]

...

I also saw the FN FiveseveN was on the roster. Always liked the look of that one, though it’s biggest selling point isn’t allowed here, so the CA version only has half the mag capacity. And not sure if that’s the best for home defense with that high velocity small caliber. Still would be a great, albeit expensive, paper puncher.

Glad to know that JHP is still legal. If that fancy frangible ammo is a no go, it’s good to know that hollow points are still on the table. Once I decide on a particular pistol, then I’ll figure out what particular ammo works for it, weight and whatever.

Since I live only a few miles from Reeds, that will probably be where I buy the thing and be my regular range.

 

[GreenDew]

I also saw the FN FiveseveN was on the roster. Always liked the look of that one, though it’s biggest selling point isn’t allowed here, so the CA version only has half the mag capacity. And not sure if that’s the best for home defense with that high velocity small caliber. Still would be a great, albeit expensive, paper puncher.

Glad to know that JHP is still legal. If that fancy frangible ammo is a no go, it’s good to know that hollow points are still on the table. Once I decide on a particular pistol, then I’ll figure out what particular ammo works for it, weight and whatever.

Since I live only a few miles from Reeds, that will probably be where I buy the thing and be my regular range.

The FiveseveN is a work of art to be sure! The magazine restrictions do hamper a lot of pistols from their original capability.

I haven't looked at the ballistics of the 5.7x28 ammo, but I'm sure there is a ton of info out there to see if it's a suitable choice against non-armored threats. :cool If you are unleashed and can accumulate a "collection", it would certainly be a great range toy.

I've always had a good experience at the range at Reed's, though I have never purchased a firearm from them. My "local" gun store has been Sportsman Supply in Campbell. Reed's may have a larger selection, though, and is definitely worth checking out. :thumbup

 

[Brown81]

Is a handgun the best home defense weapon? I always thought a short barrel shotgun was the preferred weapon. Aim it in the general direction and fire.
Defending your home with a handgun takes training and practice.
If you live in a stick frame house, unless you hit a stud, the 9mm/40 will go right through a wall and into your neighbors house.

I compete a lot with shotguns, as well as handguns and rifles. Not trying to be a dick, but almost everything you say here is false.
Defending anything with any gun takes training and practice.

At any distance inside a house, the pattern of a shotgun is going to be very small and must be AIMED at center mass just like a rifle or pistol.
"Aiming in general direction and fire" is completely false and a very dangerous notion perpetuated by TV/Movies and repeated by people who have zero experience.

Additionally, shotguns can be heavy for smaller people, as well as unwieldy in a tight house.
Also, heavy recoil means shooting technique is very important to manage it.

Now, shotguns can be great defense guns. Because you can load it with buckshot and put somebody on their ass very quickly. Because it's firing 8+ huge balls. Which will also go through walls, I can assure you. :laughing

Finally, ideas like some folks have like "you just wrack a shotgun and people run away in fear" is another example of myths surrounding shotguns. They are formidable weapons, but not majic talismans.

A proper defense load for a 9mm pistol is not going through a bunch of walls anymore than a slug or buckshot will.

:thumbup

Here's an interesting vid on over penetration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yav5axMUThU

 

[Brown81]

OP:

IMO, you should purchase a Glock 19/17.
It's the best all around pistol made, all things considered.

Or, a similar gun such as a CZ P-10C (or F).

Buy a nice 1911 or beretta later as a nice range gun.

Just my opinion.

 

[TheRobSJ]

OP:

IMO, you should purchase a Glock 19/17.
It's the best all around pistol made, all things considered.

Or, a similar gun such as a CZ P-10C (or F).

Buy a nice 1911 or beretta later as a nice range gun.

Just my opinion.

I know the Glock is legit. I really do. I’ve shot a few rentals. Just not digging the look of them.

Again, if I get to have a big ol’ collection, then I’m sure I’ll have one. Probably the long slide. 34 is it? Or if I take the wife to the range to try the new whatever I get and her little hands aren’t liking it, then maybe we’ll set her up with the 19 for next to her nightstand.

 

[Brown81]

I know the Glock is legit. I really do. I’ve shot a few rentals. Just not digging the look of them.

Again, if I get to have a big ol’ collection, then I’m sure I’ll have one. Probably the long slide. 34 is it? Or if I take the wife to the range to try the new whatever I get and her little hands aren’t liking it, then maybe we’ll set her up with the 19 for next to her nightstand.

I understand man. I find them to be ugly, too. I have a few real sexy guns that I enjoy shooting much more as well.

But I own 3 glocks. And if I had to start selling guns, the G19 is the last one I’d let go. From a pragmatic view, they will do anything asked of them. Despite the butter face! I resisted Glocks, but ultimately, the usefulness overcame all else.

I now have a CZ P10F that I am using, and I have to say: it’s much better looking and can do anything the Glock can do. Although I wouldn’t call it a looker either.

 

[TheRobSJ]

I now have a CZ P10F that I am using, and I have to say: it’s much better looking and can do anything the Glock can do. Although I wouldn’t call it a looker either.

I’ve seen the CZ75 and thought it was a decent looking rig, but honestly CZ hasn’t been on my radar. So I went and looked up that P10F and you’re right it is much better looking than a G17. I’m looking around on their site and see this one called Shadow 2...and I really like the way that one looks. But wow are they sure proud of that thing!

Edit: welp can cross that off the list. P10 and Shadow models not on the CA roster. Sigh.

 

[Sharxfan]

Best advice I was ever given was to go and shoot before you buy. I tried a ton of guns out before I settled on my M&P. It just fit my hand better than anything else out there and that is important for a self defense weapon. What works for me is not the same as what works for you or anyone else.

Also, check out the box o' truth they do some real-world tests on drywall penetration and his stuff is pretty good. An old guy from texas does the website.

Good luck with finding a gun you like.